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Fire Pump feed #195793
08/23/10 05:01 PM
08/23/10 05:01 PM
Y
Yoopersup  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 840
Michigan
Existing Junction Box with service wires 3/350mcm 3 phase 480 volt, out of that feeds Fire pump controller , then seperate run to another service disconnect.
They want to add transfer switch & generator.
Can one transfer switch be used for both
Fire pump controller & control power panel?
generator sizing ? (remember Fire Pump)
125 hp 3 phase. 480
10kva Transformer for misc. 480/120/240v 1phase

yoopersup

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Re: Fire Pump feed [Re: Yoopersup] #195798
08/23/10 08:44 PM
08/23/10 08:44 PM
L
leland  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Lowell area, Ma. USA
Hi Yoop.
695.6(F). says ..fire pump controller and fire pump transfer switch,where provided,shall not serve any load other than the
fire pump for which it is intended.

same generator is fine.
Now the can of worms. That generator now becomes 'Emergency' power.Not standby.Now comes all the documentation of all testing and maintenance requirements.

Last edited by leland; 08/23/10 08:49 PM.
Re: Fire Pump feed [Re: leland] #195803
08/23/10 10:14 PM
08/23/10 10:14 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,916
Brick, NJ USA
Yoop:
IMHO, the first person would be an EE/PE or qualified Architect, who should be well versed with gensets, transfer switches and fire pumps. The second person would be the local AHJ, both electrical and fire.

As Le said, 695.6 (F); and the gen/trans become legally required, not optional systems. (I think those are the right terms)



John
Re: Fire Pump feed [Re: HotLine1] #195806
08/24/10 12:19 AM
08/24/10 12:19 AM
L
leland  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Lowell area, Ma. USA
695- covers the fire pump and associated equipment.
pay close attention to 700, 701 and 702.
Emergency,legally required and optional standby- respectively.

Building codes and others start to play a big role the higher the importance of the back up.

Re: Fire Pump feed [Re: HotLine1] #195820
08/24/10 02:38 PM
08/24/10 02:38 PM
Y
Yoopersup  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 840
Michigan
EE/PE or Qualified Architect. Ya right. Look at most the prints out today. Hard to find anyone well versed on Fire pumps ect/ Lotta genertic answers & look in code book.
This is a Township pump. 30 hp 480 volt takes care of business unless they have a fire somewhere in township that lowers water pressure , then Fire pump kicks on to maintain pressure. One service to remote building & there adding backup Generator.
Not a Normal Job.
Yoopersup

Re: Fire Pump feed [Re: Yoopersup] #195823
08/24/10 04:41 PM
08/24/10 04:41 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,916
Brick, NJ USA
Yoop:

"then Fire pump kicks on to maintain pressure."
By definition, that sounds like a pressure maintenance (Jockey) pump, and not a fire pump.

IMHO, as you say this is a Twp. pump, they should be giving you the specs for what they want/require. The 'spec' & drawings by a PE/EE/Arch are required to get plan review approvals (based on NEC) and permits issued.

This also relieves you of any liability for the 'design', unless you have DB coverages and do the design.





John
Re: Fire Pump feed [Re: HotLine1] #195825
08/24/10 05:59 PM
08/24/10 05:59 PM
G
ghost307  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 926
Chicago Illinois USA
The ATS has to be UL Listed for Fire Pump Duty.
A regular garden variety ATS won't cut it.
Generally it's bought as a built-in component of the FP Controller.


Ghost307
Re: Fire Pump feed [Re: ghost307] #195828
08/24/10 06:18 PM
08/24/10 06:18 PM
Y
Yoopersup  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 840
Michigan
30 hp Pump maintains normal Pressure, 125 Hp pump kicks on only when theres a high draw like fire. Right now 125 Hp on Fire Pump controller But it does not have transfer switch.
#0 hp not Jockey pump & 125 hp sure not Jockey pump.

Re: Fire Pump feed [Re: Yoopersup] #195832
08/24/10 09:32 PM
08/24/10 09:32 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,165
Estero,Fl,usa
When I think of fire pumps I think about a system designed to carry the pump in locked rotor until it either frees up and starts working again or until the motor burns up.
I assume transfer equipment should be sized that way too.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Fire Pump feed [Re: gfretwell] #195854
08/25/10 07:13 PM
08/25/10 07:13 PM
Y
Yoopersup  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 840
Michigan
I agree & for buildings that require Fire pumps thats always the case. I;m wondering if this by definition is really a Fire Pump as its at a Township pumping station & servers the main water system. Like I said a 30hp takes care of Business unless something like a fire drawing large amouts of water. All the controls in the building are required to operate the System. Little different from average I run into.
Yoopersup

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