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#195527 - 08/09/10 02:02 PM Euro outlet in US kitchen  
SteveFehr  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,207
Chesapeake, VA
I was pondering how difficult it would be to retrofit & install a european 230V outlet (Schuko or UK plug) into a US kitchen so that high-powered/quick-brewing european tea kettles, coffee makers, etc, could be used. Would be trivial & straightforward to pull a dedicated circuit for new construction, but could be very difficult to pull in a new dedicated circuit in an existing home.

Question: I know it would work electrically, but would it be legal to place the two 20A GFCI kitchen circuits on a 20A 2-pole breaker, and tap both hots on the line sides of the GFCIs to power a 230V euro outlet? If the romex are run together from the panel (no reason they wouldn't be), would that be considered to be run in the same raceway? 210.52(B)(3) does not seem to prohibit this, either.


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#195529 - 08/09/10 02:32 PM Re: Euro outlet in US kitchen [Re: SteveFehr]  
Gregtaylor  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 212
Boise, Idaho, USA
I haven't found the entire answer to this yet, but the problem with referencing 210.52 at all is that it deals with 125 volt receptacles only. That's the first sentence of the article. And that alone is going to shoot this idea down.


#195530 - 08/09/10 02:39 PM Re: Euro outlet in US kitchen [Re: SteveFehr]  
mikesh  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 613
Victoria, BC, Canada
I would install a 6-20R and a cord end and call it a day.
You may also have to get the coffee maker recertified depending on local policies. This receptacle only needs a regular permit and is legal to your system. Any attempt to install a british plug should requre a Special inspection and have the outlet recertified for use on a North American system. I would not grant said permission as the receptacle I have mentioned meets the electrical requirements of the British appliance.
CAUTION: The Euro appliance has a grounded wire and the North American 230 volts does not. there could be a hazard created by the change if the grounded circuit wire is in anyway involved with the chassis. This is not the bond (green with yellow stripe)wire I am talking about.
I think the black wire is grounded in Britan


#195532 - 08/09/10 03:49 PM Re: Euro outlet in US kitchen [Re: mikesh]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,085
Estero,Fl,usa
I think the safe answer is to put in a 6-15r and then get a listed cord cap adapter or just put a 6-15p on it. Legally you could get away without a GFCI but this is not the spirit or intent of the code so I would get a 2 pole 15a GFCI breaker to serve this circuit. The thing I believe would be an issue is the voltage. If European appliances are expecting 220 volts the 240-250 we have here might be too much of a good thing. It would certainly get the tea hot pretty quick.


Greg Fretwell

#195534 - 08/09/10 07:51 PM Re: Euro outlet in US kitchen [Re: gfretwell]  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
What the OP is proposing to do is to have a two-pole circuit feed the Euro receptacle with 240, then at that point split that 240 circuit into a pair of 120 circuits.

I am somewhat 'code deprived' these days, but I'm pretty sure this is not allowed.


#195535 - 08/09/10 07:56 PM Re: Euro outlet in US kitchen [Re: gfretwell]  
uksparx  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 44
Egremont,Cumbria,UK
Just happened upon this - so I'll add a little from a British perspective! The appliances would not object to the voltage at all these days - for a while European equipment has been designed for a "declared" voltage of 230. This can legally vary by some degree from around 208v to as much as 250v.
As for the ground issue with the neutral - no problem either, if you notice, the schuko plug is NOT polarised, so either conductor can be live (hot) at the appliance.
To the plug issue, you are possibly better using a US certified plug I think, the schuko would be fine (though not approved), the UK plug has a fuse in it and the live side only.
I think it is high time the US moved over to 230v appliances in general (or at least kitchens etc for a start) as it would solve a lot of your voltage drop problems in an instant. I believe the idea was toyed with many years ago, but you guys already had masses of appliances even then and to swap it all - big problem. Phasing it in kitchens first and selling 230v appliances alongside 120v ones would be a good way to gradually change maybe???
Oh and the black in the UK was the grounded neutral until about 5 years ago - then we harmonised with Europe and now it's blue!!!


#195537 - 08/09/10 08:48 PM Re: Euro outlet in US kitchen [Re: uksparx]  
mikesh  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 613
Victoria, BC, Canada
Greg I just assumed the configuration was for 20 amps. I guess from the reference to the 20 amp circuits.
The Canadian Code now allows 20 amp appliance circuits or split 3 wire 15 amp circuits.

Most Canadian electrical contractors are now using 20 amp t slot on #12-2 loomex for kitchen plugs. We want to avoid those pesky 2 pole GFCI breakers. Only 15 and 20 amp outlets require GFCI protection and it might be the spirit of the code to GFCI protect all outlets within 1.5 meters (5ft.) of a sink it is not the rule and I beleive that no ground fault protection is mandated in the NEC or CEC for a 15 or 20 amp 250 volt outlet. It might be a good idea but I would think that most EC would not install a $200 breaker what ever the underlying rational if the customer did not request the additional protection. Nevermind what else they don't want in Indiana.
I think we agree the circuit must be a North American configuration outlet and cord end too.
I doubt the 30 volts will create much havoc unless the machine is rated right at 12 or 16 amps at 220-230 volts in which case the current will be higher at 240 volts and lower at 208.


#195539 - 08/09/10 10:35 PM Re: Euro outlet in US kitchen [Re: mikesh]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,085
Estero,Fl,usa
Reno, the problem with splitting this out into 2 120v circuits is small appliance circuits can have no other outlets.
Mike, I suppose you could use a 20a circuit but it seems like overkill. I looked and they do have 3KW tea kettles tho so if you really want to be prepared, go with the 6-20.



Greg Fretwell

#195540 - 08/09/10 11:01 PM Re: Euro outlet in US kitchen [Re: gfretwell]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,833
Brick, NJ USA
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but is not the european 220/230 volt consist of a 'hot' with 220 volt potential, and a 'neutral' with zero potential?

Thought I heard that, probably from Spain or Portugal.



John

#195542 - 08/10/10 04:58 AM Re: Euro outlet in US kitchen [Re: HotLine1]  
NORCAL  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 869
Originally Posted by HotLine1
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but is not the european 220/230 volt consist of a 'hot' with 220 volt potential, and a 'neutral' with zero potential?

Thought I heard that, probably from Spain or Portugal.



It's derived from a 380,400,415Y / 220,230,240V system. (Harmonized to 400/230V).


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