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#1914 - 06/07/01 04:20 PM Replacing GEC  
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,878
NY, USA
When doing an Residential service upgrade and the GEC to the Water main is replaced, what do you do with the old one? Leave it connected or cut it out? Please include your reasoning.

[Linked Image]
Bill


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#1915 - 06/07/01 05:09 PM Re: Replacing GEC  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,311
ok i'll play!
if it is truely an 'upgrade' then the GEC required is probably larger, the old clamps are probably rusted, etc.]
usually i find the old connections NG due to corrosion, and replace with new geased ( no-lox) clamps.
The older ones usually do not 'jump' the meter, so in that sense they are NG also.


so why leave the old one anyhow? i don't get it? am i slow here? hey,if you were dropped on your head as a baby would it be your fault???


[Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by Webmaster (edited 06-07-2001).]


#1916 - 06/07/01 05:23 PM Re: Replacing GEC  
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,878
NY, USA
Sparky,

(Serious question)

Many times one of the utilities has bonded to the original GEC with a split bolt and it was closed up in the wall or ceiling. can't always be sure if something is using it or not. I guess the question really is if there is any harm in leaving it?

Hey, what if all the 3 prong receptacles were installed on old 2 wire cable and bonded to that old GEC as it ran past. If you cut it all your Grounds are then NG (we're PG rated here). [Linked Image]

What do you think?

Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 06-07-2001).]


#1917 - 06/07/01 05:55 PM Re: Replacing GEC  
Anonymous
Unregistered

If it is in good shape, I would be strongly inclined to leave it.

If it is deteriorated and I can remove it, I would remove it, just like any other deleted wiring.

If I can't remove it, then I have to bond it.

Leaving it hanging is not an option.


#1918 - 06/07/01 09:10 PM Re: Replacing GEC  
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,878
NY, USA
Dspark,

I'm inclined to keep it too if I can't see the full length of it I can't tell if it's being used as a path by other things. I figure that even if it is disconnected or cut from one end (or too short to reach) it is still serving a purpose to 'other' bonded items if any should exist.

Bill


#1919 - 06/07/01 09:49 PM Re: Replacing GEC  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,311
Ok,
that's different,
the next Q that comes to mind would be how to assess the hidden GEC's usage.


#1920 - 06/07/01 09:59 PM Re: Replacing GEC  
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,878
NY, USA
Sparky,

The point is that if it's not detrimental in some way it can be left in place. If it is hidden by finish it might be better left alone, or at least connected at one end.

Bill


#1921 - 06/08/01 07:14 AM Re: Replacing GEC  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,311
ok, in the particular case you pose, it would no longer be a GEC, it would be a 'bond' , or ECG right? so it's connection would follow suit.

If the original connection was in question, would you move this to the closest JB ???

[Linked Image]


#1922 - 06/08/01 08:12 AM Re: Replacing GEC  
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,878
NY, USA
Sparky,

It would be a bond, yes. Do you know of any reason why it shouldn't/couldn't be allowed to remain connected at both ends? That way it would also serve as a redundant/backup GEC?

Bill


#1923 - 06/08/01 08:47 PM Re: Replacing GEC  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,311
Well Bill,
I don't see what harm it can do to leave the old GEC connected. I have done many service changes where the meter or the panel are moved.(As i am sure you have also)

I have utilized the old GEC and electrodes simply because i beleive more earth contact will achieve the 25 ohms or less ruling, and as you've stated, the possibilty of a backup.

GEC's can be installed in singular runs, so by code we could have as many seperate GEC runs as electrodes we desire.

If the original GEC has been installed correctly, the only possible parrallel path would be back to the serving utility X-former through common water or other mettalic lines in the event of a noodle faluire ( old ground, i know)

The event of a lighting strike or other power surge would, in theory, see ampacity divide among the many GEC's

better???

[Linked Image]



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