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#19059 - 12/19/02 07:12 PM Will you please review my Proposal?  
sparky66wv  Offline
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
West Virginia
Click here to go to an online copy of my latest proposal for a big job.

It's fairly important that I bid high enough for profit and low enough to get the job... There's ten years of work at stake here.

Any and all help and advice is greatly appreciated!


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#19060 - 12/19/02 07:22 PM Re: Will you please review my Proposal?  
HotLine1  Offline

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,853
Brick, NJ USA
I'll read it more thoroughly later tonite or tommorrow, but it looks pretty good for most part.

The part regarding construction delays may be a door that you don't want to open. If you get delayed on the rough, and the insulator & sheetrocker have to you have to pay them???

Is the lawyer that was at ECN still around???



#19061 - 12/19/02 07:34 PM Re: Will you please review my Proposal?  
Scotts  Offline
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 209
Ventura, CA, USA
One thing that I would add is the date of the latest revisions on the drawings. It would tie things up a little better. Good luck.

#19062 - 12/19/02 08:12 PM Re: Will you please review my Proposal?  
sparky  Offline
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,311
i'm drawing a blank on one item here, you are quoting a fixed price right?, then stating that you are billing out T&M
[Linked Image]
why not agree to % of job completion against the total quote?

#19063 - 12/19/02 09:14 PM Re: Will you please review my Proposal?  
Wirenuttt  Offline
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 267
I know the big guys work on percentages of work done after inspection of the GC, clerks, engineers or whoever happens to be involved. Then payments are made at meetings according to your records and the records kept by the jobs eng clerks etcc. They ask you particular portions of the job, rough part then break it down to sections, same with finish. Not sure if this helps at all. What Hotline said about revisions is a very good point, I've held plans in my hand and was not told that those were the old ones. Man does that add up. Checking your proposal against the dated plans at that time, absolutely, then if changed you have leverage for extras depending on the extents.

I think you have a damned good proposal, looks like it's from a lawyers office.

[This message has been edited by Wirenuttt (edited 12-19-2002).]

#19064 - 12/19/02 11:12 PM Re: Will you please review my Proposal?  
sparkync  Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 826
Virgil, I don't think I understand the part in the National and local codes part, about not being responsible for other contractors.
If you are talking about other electrical subcontractors under you, it seems that you would have to responsible to see that it is right since you are the one responsible for the job. Then you could settle up with the subcontracter separately( in other words, you and him would have to have a separate contract stating His work would be according to Code. Also are the ceiling in the living room and foyer real high ceilings? That will take extra time and maybe scaffolding if so.
To me, the price seems a little high, but maybe your rates and competition are not as bad as it is in my area. I did a house a little similar a while back, and I didn't make as much as I should have,( my price should have been probably around $7500 ), but it was less, I believe around $5700 or thereabouts. I had approximately 3000 sq. ft. of heated space, with 17ft. ceilings in the living room area, all #12 wire, a septic tank pump system, around 25 recess cans, 4 or 5 ceiling fans and about all the rest that you stated, plus I had to travel about an hour to the job site every day.... Yea, I know, I really took it too cheap, but I was desperate. But I'm sure there's more to yours than what we see.... Hope you get the job..I've been there, done that... Steve.....

#19065 - 12/19/02 11:27 PM Re: Will you please review my Proposal?  
Electricmanscott  Offline
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
Proposal looks pretty good. A little "wordy" but this may be a good thing. Who drew the plans? Is this a working drawing? A couple thigs I noticed. No three way switch for the foyer or living room. Looks like it might be needed. Gfci recepts on front and back porch. Accesible from grade level? Inspectors here interpret that to mean standing on the ground and accessing the receptacle. Kitchen recessed lights not laid out very well. The row of three towards the stove will mainly light the floor. These should be pushed closer to the cabinets so you will not be standing in your own shadow when working at the counter. Otherwise things look pretty good.

#19066 - 12/19/02 11:55 PM Re: Will you please review my Proposal?  
Electric Eagle  Offline
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 914
Alpharetta, GA
Over all, I'd say it looks good, but too wordy and technical. My contractors pay nothing down, 60%-70%(depending on size and type) after rough-in and the ballance upon completion. Also we are expected to provide all cans, trims, and bulbs. Most of my builders are on handshake deals, but I only do work with trusted contractors, so for me the contract is usually not required. Legally the handshake deal will hold up if you had to go to court.

#19067 - 12/20/02 12:42 AM Re: Will you please review my Proposal?  
kinetic  Offline
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 156
Phoenix, Arizona
Very nice there.....looks alot like the one from Mike Holt? I would put more detail in the materials you are providing. A shifty GC could skew it in his direction and have you providing the dishwasher, disposal, air handlers etc. Also could try to play games with types of cans, switches, and plugs, etc. since they are not specified. Trying to get you to use low voltage or decora. Had one GC try it and am very detailed about what they are getting and what they are not.

#19068 - 12/20/02 01:56 AM Re: Will you please review my Proposal?  
sparky66wv  Offline
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
West Virginia
My power was just restored after an outage due to who-knows-what... Raining a little... Could be related. Anyway...

John (Hotline1),
They didn't give a written schedule last time, and it buys me lots of room if they try to pull a "you're-taking-too-long" thing on me without one... It will actually be in my favor. A small gamble, but I could word it more carefully...

Scotts, good point! I will do just that!

Everyone, the plans I were given are just floor plans, no electrical (I was a little miffed, but didn't say anything). I spent a day drawing out the floor plan, designing an electrical plan (All mistakes are mine!) and doing the take-off and proposal. My worst fears are not getting the job and having them use my info for free!

Wirenuttt has the idea here, they have me bill at T&M until (unless?) things look slim at the end. I had billed for the whole amount by piecemeal the last time and was paid in full before being completely finished, so no worries here.

Wirenuttt, yup, similar circumstances here.

I guess I could word it more carefully. I should be responsible for my subs, but not if the drywallers zip my wires, or if the plumbers put the water heater in front of my panel, etc.
Fortunately, I've wired one already that was similar to this one and ended up just less than $12K with changes. They said my original bid of $10.2K was lowball, but after changes, I was on the high side.
I didn't do the phones or TV cables at all, so that would add a little bit, and $11.5K is my shoot-from-the-hip guess-and-hope guestimated hypothesized and ciphered figure.
It's kinda like a crap shoot sometimes.
BTW, my other jobs in this area are closer, if not less, than the prices in your examples.

I drew the plans from a floor plan and working knowledge of what was in two other cottages. And I've put in 10 3-ways as opposed to the lowly 4 in the last cottage (which actually had an electrical plan).
The can-lights were put there hastily, and are there more for a "head-count" than actual location. I'm not sure if they even want cans in there at all, could be two of three surface mounts like the one cottage...
There will be UC lights, but I agree that the cans are too far away from the counters.
The GFCIs are on porches, none of which are ground level. I didn't provide a basement / foundation plan online, I'll see if I can get one up tomorrow. The mechanical room, and several GFCIs are inside and out on those plans, and are accounted for on the Take-off lists with the proposal.

With experience from the last job here, they provide recessed cans, trims and bulbs as well as recessed fans. Their call.
A deposit (or wording to provide for one) was in part of the 29 page contract they gave me on the last cottage, so heck, may as well take advantage of it.

Yup, from Mike's template. With much revision from (bad) experiences. I actually do provide a materials list down to the wirenuts and screws complete with catalog numbers, but couldn't figure out how to get it online in a speadsheet type format without it taking too much of my time and patience. It looked really messy in regular ASCII.

Thanks for all the help! I'll edit it later and let you know of the changes!

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 12-20-2002).]

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