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Kitchen and Pantry Areas #190377
11/13/09 09:07 PM
11/13/09 09:07 PM
K
KJay  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 763
MA, USA
Would you consider a kitchen pantry a "closet", as described in 210.12, requiring any lighting and receptacle outlets located there to be on AFCI protected circuits.
Or do you consider a pantry storage space as kitchen, not requiring the AFCI protection.

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Kitchen and Pantry Areas [Re: KJay] #190378
11/13/09 10:26 PM
11/13/09 10:26 PM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
NEC requires the pantry to be on a 'small appliance branch circuit,' so the AFCI rules don't apply - as I see it.

Re: Kitchen and Pantry Areas [Re: renosteinke] #190381
11/14/09 07:53 AM
11/14/09 07:53 AM
G
George Little  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
I agree Reno, and the code reference would be 210.52(B)(1).


George Little
Re: Kitchen and Pantry Areas [Re: George Little] #190383
11/14/09 11:39 AM
11/14/09 11:39 AM
K
KJay  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 763
MA, USA
Yes, but dining room receptacles are required to be on a small appliance branch circuit and AFCI protection is required for those as well as for the lighting outlets in that room.

If the pantry space is truly considered a part of the kitchen then I agree, but if the pantry is just considered a closet or similar area and not actually part of the kitchen, then I believe it would have to be treated similar to a dining room.

I think by definition a pantry is generally considered part of a traditional kitchen, but I was sort of hoping that maybe there had been a formal interpretation of this made somewhere.

Re: Kitchen and Pantry Areas [Re: KJay] #190384
11/14/09 12:43 PM
11/14/09 12:43 PM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
A very good catch, kj ... the dining room is listed under both requirements!

Since the counter is required to be served by two different circuits, this could have the unintended result that half of the counter will be AFCI protected, in addition to GFCI protection.

Re: Kitchen and Pantry Areas [Re: renosteinke] #190400
11/15/09 11:31 PM
11/15/09 11:31 PM
Niko  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 356
Campbell, CA
All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit .... closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination-type, installed to provide protection of the branch circuit.

The 2008 is asking for ALL of the outlets that are in dwelling including closets or similar rooms.

I can't imagine anyone installing a non AFCI dedicated lighting circuit just for the kitchen or the pantry.


Be kind to your neighbor, he knows where you live

Re: Kitchen and Pantry Areas [Re: Niko] #190403
11/16/09 01:06 AM
11/16/09 01:06 AM
renosteinke  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Nico, my 2008 NEC does not say that; there are many areas listed - and just as notable are the areas not listed as rewuiring AFVI protection. Kitchen, pantry, etc., areas are not included in the list of places that require AFCI's.

Re: Kitchen and Pantry Areas [Re: renosteinke] #190421
11/16/09 08:05 PM
11/16/09 08:05 PM
Niko  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 356
Campbell, CA
Reno,
I Know that the kitchen is not required to be AFCI protected. But the code does say that ALL outlets in dwelling closets and similar rooms shall be AFCI protected. so when I said (typed) ALL i was referring to closets and similar rooms. in this case i would say that a pantry is a similar room to closet.

Am i wrong on this?


Be kind to your neighbor, he knows where you live

Re: Kitchen and Pantry Areas [Re: Niko] #190422
11/16/09 08:24 PM
11/16/09 08:24 PM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
I can see where, in a particular installation, the 'pantry' is but a closet. I was thinking - as we probably all tend to do - of the last job, where the 'pantry' had a counter, sink,refrigerator, dishwasher, and cabinets of it's own.

I suppose it comes down to the specific plan, and it's a judgement call. After all, 'closets' need not have any receptacles. If the 'pantry' area has a counter, it seems reasonable to apply kitchen counter receptacle spacing and GFCI rules to it.

Once again, architects have managed to design past the constraints of the language laugh

Re: Kitchen and Pantry Areas [Re: Niko] #190444
11/18/09 07:49 PM
11/18/09 07:49 PM
K
KJay  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 763
MA, USA
Originally Posted by Niko

I can't imagine anyone installing a non AFCI dedicated lighting circuit just for the kitchen or the pantry.


Depending on the job, I will often run non-afci circuits for kitchen, laundry, bathrooms, basement, garage, outside lighting and outside receptacles.
I just plan out my wire runs in advance.
AFCI’s are usually nothing but trouble for outside receptacles, especially when the HO wants to use power tools or run a shop-vac for vacuuming out the car.
Some of the houses I wire have several circuits just for the kitchen lighting and at $45.00 each for a CAFCI circuit breaker, it can add up to several hundred dollars in savings for a large house. Less AFCI’s also has the added advantage of cutting down on those future trouble shooting problems due to AFCI nuisance tripping. smile


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