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#190189 - 11/08/09 07:49 PM Lighting outlets and luminaires.  
KJay  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 763
MA, USA
I felt this was an interesting topic from another forum so thought I would bring it up here since there are several inspectors, both past and present that frequent this site.

In a habitable room of a dwelling unit, where the wall switch controlled lighting outlet required in 210.70[A],1 has a ceiling fan mounted on it, would you consider the light kit on the ceiling fan as meeting the definition of a luminaire in Art.100?
If not, would you then also require either an additional wall switch controlled lighting outlet with a luminaire attached to it or a wall switch controlled receptacle in the room as allowed in exception 1?
What made this extra interesting is that when I was thumbing through the UL White Book, I noticed that ceiling fans and their light kits are listed under different heading than luminaires.


2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#190197 - 11/08/09 10:02 PM Re: Lighting outlets and luminaires. [Re: KJay]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,863
Brick, NJ USA
Kjay:
A light kit on a ceiling fan is acceptable for 210.70(a). IMHO, I don't think that the headings in the UL White Book have any significance.



John

#190200 - 11/08/09 10:12 PM Re: Lighting outlets and luminaires. [Re: HotLine1]  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
A light in a room is a light in a room .... I don't care if that light has a fan above it or a cat sleeping under it!


#190204 - 11/09/09 12:02 AM Re: Lighting outlets and luminaires. [Re: renosteinke]  
KJay  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 763
MA, USA
I tend to agree, but what caught my attention is that ceiling fan support is outlined in 422.18, but luminaires are covered in 410.
So, now if a fan is indeed considered an appliance in the NEC, even with a light kit, would it be allowed to be installed on the required wall switched lighting outlet in 210.70[A],1 that is intended for direct connection to a luminaire? [Without getting into the whole fan rated box thing, etc...] smile

Below is some related info:

Lighting outlet Art.100: An outlet intended for the direct connection of a lampholder or luminaire.

Luminaire Art.100: A complete lighting unit consisting of a light source such as a lamp or lamps, together with the parts designed to position the light source and connect it to the power supply. It may also include parts to protect the light source or the ballast or to distribute the light. A lampholder itself is not a luminaire.

Luminaires, Lamp Holders and Lamps: 410

Support of Ceiling Suspended [Paddle] fans: 422.18



#190205 - 11/09/09 12:17 AM Re: Lighting outlets and luminaires. [Re: KJay]  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Keep in mind that a 'lighting outlet' can be as simple as a switched wall receptacle, in most rooms of the house. What's to keep somone from plugging a heater into it?


#190208 - 11/09/09 12:49 AM Re: Lighting outlets and luminaires. [Re: renosteinke]  
leland  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Lowell area, Ma. USA
What does support have to do with it?

the fan with a light kit has an independent conductor for each item.
so there fore I feel it (the light) would meet the requirement.

Also as stated above,a switched rec. with no lamp meets the requirement as well.


#190233 - 11/09/09 04:19 PM Re: Lighting outlets and luminaires. [Re: leland]  
gfretwell  Online Content


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,116
Estero,Fl,usa
I was watching an argument that split the IAEI as to whether a blanked off plate in the ceiling connected to a switch was a "lighting outlet". Everyone agreed it didn't matter if there was a "half hot" on a switch in there somewhere but the question arose about if the lighting outlet was only the blanked off plate in the ceiling.
The argument "for" went along the lines that the new homeowner wanted to buy their own luminaire and the builder didn't what to install something that would be in the trash immediately. I voted with the side that said "put a $2 keyless up there". I think the intent is that an unqualified person can get a light on in there.

... and a light kit in a fan is a light IMHO.

A fan that takes a kit but the kit is not present at the time is not a light.


Greg Fretwell

#190236 - 11/09/09 06:06 PM Re: Lighting outlets and luminaires. [Re: gfretwell]  
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
A light in a room is a light in a room .... I don't care if that light has a fan above it or a cat sleeping under it!

No way Reno- Cats not allowed. :))

As for a fan/light combo- What's the big deal they do it all the time in bathrooms.


George Little

#190240 - 11/09/09 08:30 PM Re: Lighting outlets and luminaires. [Re: George Little]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,863
Brick, NJ USA
Leland:
Have you not seen a paddle fan installed to an outlet box that only has a hot & neutral present? The pull chains supplied with the fan are used to turn the fan (or light) on-off.



John

#190244 - 11/09/09 08:51 PM Re: Lighting outlets and luminaires. [Re: HotLine1]  
gfretwell  Online Content


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,116
Estero,Fl,usa
If there is no "wall switch" connected to that fan/light outlet it doesn't count for 210.70(A)(1)

"At least one wall switch–controlled lighting outlet..."



Greg Fretwell

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