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#188938 - 09/11/09 04:06 AM Re: Copper theft [Re: noderaser]  
OreElect  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 98
Salem,Oregon.USA
Hey I see you live in Oregon. Was curious what kind of licensing a production electrician requires.


Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#188939 - 09/11/09 10:14 AM Re: Copper theft [Re: OreElect]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,872
Brick, NJ USA
Scrap value of 15Kv cable....????

A good cure for stupidity for sure.


John

#188954 - 09/12/09 11:51 PM Re: Copper theft [Re: OreElect]  
noderaser  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 404
Portland, Oregon, United State...
Originally Posted by OreElect
Hey I see you live in Oregon. Was curious what kind of licensing a production electrician requires.


There is a Journeyman Stage Electrician license that covers tie-ins, temporary circuit installation, installation and maintenance of temporary equipment, etc. Unfortunately, the apprenticeship/education program through IATSE isn't really doing much with it right now, which is (probably) why the education requirements listed on the licensing site below say that your training & experience must come from out of state. Due to the lack of training offered, there isn't a whole lot of enforcement being done on areas covered by the license. Hopefully, IATSE will revive the program soon as I'd very much be interested in getting said license without having to work 8,000 hours out of state.

http://licenseinfo.oregon.gov/index...amp;pfa=link_class&link_item_id=1663

There is also the ETCP Electrician certification, which probably covers just as much (if not more) of the requirements offered by the state program. Of course, this is offered by a trade group and not any AHJ or licensing body.


#188978 - 09/14/09 02:26 AM Re: Copper theft [Re: noderaser]  
OreElect  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 98
Salem,Oregon.USA
8000 hours out of state?
Look at
http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/rules/OARS_900/OAR_918/918_282.html
On Limited Journeyman Stage Electrician License. 918-282-0230 Oregon administrative rules.
Keep in mind it is unlawful to perform electrical work in the state of Oregon with out a license. Reading your profile you listed yourself as a {Master electrician.} After checking building codes and not seeing any license through the state of Oregon made me ask the question about production electrician. Here in Oregon we take seriously working without a license, working for a licensed electrical contractor and who must also have a general supervising electrician. Also any necessary permits for doing the work.
Use caution when you represent yourself as a electrician much less a Master Electrician when you have no license, are not legal nor have you gone through an apprenticeship program or have no proof of being trained by a licensed electrician here in Oregon.
You may want to read http://www.cbs.state.or.us/external/bcd/enforcement.html and look up the penalties that others have received for not having the proper license or permits and doing electrical work.
You may want to contact Chief electrical inspector for the state of Oregon and make sure what you can and cannot do legally if any. The penalties are steep.



Last edited by Trumpy; 09/15/09 05:49 AM. Reason: To remove e-mail address

#188989 - 09/14/09 08:21 PM Re: Copper theft [Re: OreElect]  
noderaser  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 404
Portland, Oregon, United State...
If you look at page 9 of the license application, you will note the following requirements:

(1) Official transcripts verifying 150 hours of required
classroom training and verification of 4,000 hours of
on-the-job experience obtained outside of Oregon.
OR
(2) Verification of 8,000 hours of on-the-job stage
experience obtained outside of Oregon, broken down
into specific work categories

I don't know where in my profile you think I listed myself as a Master Electrician, but in the production industry this is used as a job title for the supervisory electrician since no actual license (other than ESTA/ETCP certification) exists with that title. Nowhere have I made any claim to being licensed.

The Oregon stage electrician license was developed in coopration with IATSE, which had the only training programs. As they are not actively teaching those classes anymore, it is not possible to obtain the license while working in Oregon.

As far as enforcement goes, I would like to see any evidence you have of a stage electrician being prosecuted or fined in Oregon for doing electrical work within his job description without a license. Since there is no effective licensing program, there is little else we can do, than to follow applicable code, best practices and what little training is offered through IATSE. I am not saying that this is the way it should be, but that's the way it is.

If you wish to continue discussion, I suggest making another thread as we've already hijacked this one.


#188997 - 09/15/09 02:29 AM Re: Copper theft [Re: noderaser]  
OreElect  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 98
Salem,Oregon.USA
Part of my training as a General Supervising Electrician is knowing and following the Oregon Administrative rules, OARs and the ORSs
The "Oregon administrative rules" are what we follow. Read them .We do not make are own rules. The Oregon administrative rules are available at building codes on line as I listed.
Check out ORS 479.620 page 18
http://www.cbs.state.or.us/external/bcd/rules_statutes/compilations/2007_ors/479.pdf
479.620 Certain electrical license required;
Electrical installations by unlicensed
Persons prohibited. Subject to ORS
479.540, a person may not:
(1) Without an electrical contractor license,
Engage in the business of making
Electrical installations, advertise as or otherwise
Purport to be licensed to make electrical
Installations or purport to be acting as
A business that makes electrical installations.
Re: license application
One would not even look at a license application until they had verifiable prerequisites.
The Master Electrician was what you had listed on your resume description under previous work. As well as advertising to do electrical work.
As far as training, that is what apprenticeship is for. Two years as an apprentice for a Electrician, Limited Journeyman, Stage (ST) as of 9/01/09
http://licenseinfo.oregon.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=license_seng&link_item_id=1663
Licensee is limited to stage or theater electrical production tasks only not including building or structure wiring, and must be employed by an electrical contractor or theatrical producer.ndex.cfm?fuseaction=license_seng&link_item_id=1663
Building codes now has an enforcement team looking for illegal work,non licensed electricians doing work and working with out a permits
Here is the current penalty matrix .
http://www.cbs.state.or.us/external/bcd/programs/enforcement/penalty_matrix.pdf
Here are some examples of penalties given http://www.cbs.state.or.us/bcd/boards/pdfs/electelv/00/122100a.pdf
http://www.bcd.oregon.gov/boards/electelv/board_pack/09/20090326/EE_032609_IIIb1.
http://www.cbs.state.or.us/bcd/final_orders/2008-0258.pdf
Other than plugging in something, or changing a light bulb, A non licensed person would call a Licensed Electrical contractor to do there electrical work.
Doing Electrical work in the State of Oregon with out a license is not legal.
As I said before contact the Oregon Chief Electrical Inspector.
Or call and Inquire what you can legally do.

Last edited by Trumpy; 09/15/09 05:47 AM. Reason: To remove e-mail and phone numbers

#188999 - 09/15/09 05:54 AM Re: Copper theft [Re: Trumpy]  
dougwells  Offline


Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,140
kamloops BC Canada
Darn, our Province is following the way Oregon is doing things, I kind of find this educational


#189012 - 09/15/09 10:56 AM Oregon Electrical Licensing Requirements  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
To keep another thread from going too far off-topic, I've started this one, by moving the other posts here.


#189020 - 09/16/09 01:14 AM Re: Oregon Electrical Licensing Requirements [Re: renosteinke]  
noderaser  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 404
Portland, Oregon, United State...
I find it interesting that this discussion has morphed from your inquiry about how production electricians are (or aren't) licensed in Oregon, to a code & licensing lecture. I'm not sure what you are trying to prove, but you will change little. I am following the standards in my industry, over which I have little influence or effect. The best I can do, is to follow code when applicable and ensure the safe installation and operation of equipment. I am not a "hack". My job is to ensure that the plot given to me by the Lighting Designer, Technical Director or other authority is installed to plan, and that appropriate power distribution is provided to the lighting, sound, rigging and other systems. We do this using equipment that has been specified for heavy-duty, temporary use.

As I will say for the third time, there are no training programs or apprenticeships that will qualify you for the Stage Electrician limited electrical license in Oregon, at this time. Period. End of story.

I acknowledge that the current lack of licensed supervision of production electrical work could may not fit with the currently published code. However, licensing is not a cure-all, as the discussions and photos on these forums will show. Just because someone has studied for and obtained a license, does not mean that he/she will always use the skills used in their training in every day practice, or follow every code at all times. There are plenty of licensed and unlicensed hacks out there, who make bad names for electricians of all breeds.

Furthermore, you aren't going to change a large and profitable industry by arguing with me. The use of job titles such as "Master Electrician" is universal within the production industry. If you misunderstand what is represented in my resume and on my website, then you are not my target audience; those in my industry (or do hiring in my industry) understand what is represented there. While there are efforts to change the ways that job titles are used (such as the ESTA/ETCP certification programs for both "Master Electricians" and stage rigging), it will be a slow process since these are traditions dating back to the time of the first use of electric light onstage. These changes are being recommended and approved by industry leaders, risk management specialists, lawyers, engineers and code authorities. I trust they know what they are taking on.

If you require further input from me, please ask questions. Quoting code and implying that your knowledge of my industry is superior to my own will not get any replies.

And, for your information, I do not do any panel tie-ins. This is considered a liability, sans appropriate licensing. If I am working at a venue where appropriate feeder connections (cam-loc, Hubbel-loc, etc.) are not supplied, I either use generator power, or see that the venue management has the appropriate equipment installed. When necessary, I make referrals to the Oregon Electric Group or Christensen Electric, who have both been very helpful in getting the proper interfaces installed.


#189214 - 09/24/09 12:44 AM Re: Oregon Electrical Licensing Requirements [Re: noderaser]  
noderaser  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 404
Portland, Oregon, United State...
Looks like the local is reviving their apprenticeship program; I have in my posession a spreadsheet for entry of hours worked in various areas over a month. However, some of the areas are pretty vague/cryptic; will seek more info.


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