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#187110 - 06/13/09 11:28 PM A Lesson in Design  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Once again, I am starting a thread as a way to vent, to ponder 'what went wrong."

I'm new at the business side of thinks. A repeat customer has a 'side business' of managing a small strip mall. Unable to find a tenant for a large space, he is in the process of dividing the space into a hair / nail salon now, with a laundromat and sandwich shop to follow.

I managed to move myself from "shoe-in" to "frozen out" with this project.

When he mentioned 'hair/nail salon,' I spent several days examining existing salons, learning what their needs were. I then made a proposal based upon those lessons. I even brought in some HVAC guys to disxuss ventilation, etc. (which turns out to be a really big deal for a nail salon).

The customer then chats with his GC, who happily asserts that I am far too expensive, don't know what I'm doing, etc.

Work has begun. As best as I can tell, there is no permit, and the GC will do the plumbing, HVAC, and plumbing himself (though he is neither licensed nor qualified in these areas). Whether the GC has made any changes based upon the drawing I gave the customer remains unknown.

I'm staying clear of the place - not even looking in the windows. All I can do is trust to fate: that code compliance will learn of the job and shut it down, and that the GC's work will prove inadequate.

At last contact, the customer was relating the GC's plans for getting inside the switchgear and obtaining power for the proposed laundromat .....

I can't wait for the monthly IAEI meeting. I think I will strongly encourage the City folks to have lunch at the fast-food place next door, and just happen to notice something irregular going on. Any patience I may have is sorely tried at the mention of switchgear.


Business, Office, Estimating, Legal:

#187112 - 06/14/09 12:48 AM Re: A Lesson in Design [Re: renosteinke]  
NORCAL  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 869
"I can't wait for the monthly IAEI meeting. I think I will strongly encourage the City folks to have lunch at the fast-food place next door, and just happen to notice something irregular going on. Any patience I may have is sorely tried at the mention of switchgear."

Nothing like a gentle "hint hint". grin


#187115 - 06/14/09 03:43 AM Re: A Lesson in Design [Re: renosteinke]  
frenchelectrican  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 939
Wi/ Paris France { France for ...
Originally Posted by renosteinke


At last contact, the customer was relating the GC's plans for getting inside the switchgear and obtaining power for the proposed laundromat .....



Now That GC is getting nuts and that GC will not realized how big the service it require to run the landromat shocked plus HVAC requirement due the big dryers { you know how much those dryer can really move large quality of air plus gaz useage }

Merci,Marc


Pas de problme,il marche n'est-ce pas?"(No problem, it works doesn't it?)


#187138 - 06/15/09 09:33 AM Re: A Lesson in Design [Re: frenchelectrican]  
Tesla  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
Sacramento, CA
Spell it out...

Is it not true that the GC and landlord are free-riding on your design effort?

When a project is design-build...

You as EC need some boiler-plate protecting you from free-riding.

I'd start with copy-writing my submissions and establish ownership of the plans....

If, subsequently, the GC just happens to have followed the submitted design...

It's time for court.

I'd also tack on a liquidated damages clause to any design-build.

If the player wants to use submitted proposals then a fee for services rendered is due.

Free-riding is going to be the bane of D/B until some construct brings it to a halt.

------

Everyone: post your solutions.


Tesla

#187140 - 06/15/09 11:20 AM Re: A Lesson in Design [Re: Tesla]  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Tesla, I understand your points ... and they're good ones! I only widh the GC was 'free-riding" on my plans; I'd have some faith in the design!

I had prepared a drawing based upon my intuition alone - I did not have a floor plan to work from. As it turns out, I got it 90% correct .... looks like I made some pretty good guesses.

The sketch later prepared by the GC is completely lacking several required items (such as egress lighting), relies upon existing lighting, and has all hair stations on the same circuit (two blow-dryers and POP!). Nor is there any ventilation added for the nail table area. I could go on, but I think you get the idea.

I'd sleep netter if only he were using my plan .... at least, I'd be confident that the tenant would be able to operate their business successfully.

As for plans in general .... if he ever submits plans to het a permit, he needs to have the electrical signed off by an architect, engineer, ot EC. The city will not accept his signature on the electrical, plumbing, or HVAC drawings.


#187142 - 06/15/09 12:00 PM Re: A Lesson in Design [Re: renosteinke]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,085
Estero,Fl,usa
Plans? Permits? ... on a commercial refit?
That would be strange to me.
I have seen entire data centers carved out of warehouse space and never went through plan review or permitting. That is one of the main reasons why IBM had installation planning reps.
Somebody needed to put some logic into the process, if for nothing else, to assure the proper operation of our equipment and safety of OUR employees.
It was a free service for most of the years IBM offered it as long as you were buying or leasing something new.
You could buy one tape drive and get your whole data center redesigned. We didn't have red tags but we could refuse to plug in our equipment or service it.


Greg Fretwell

#187349 - 06/23/09 06:38 PM Re: A Lesson in Design [Re: gfretwell]  
ChicoC10  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 169
CA
So has the GC burned himself up in the cabinet yet?
It sounds like your old client is in for a lesson himself.
Right after he learns it he will probably call you to come and make it work.

Last edited by ChicoC10; 06/23/09 06:41 PM.


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