ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Potseal 11
Recent Posts
Why cables look like they do
by LongRunner. 04/26/17 09:36 AM
Dimmable LED 2x4 lay in fixtures
by HotLine1. 04/24/17 05:43 PM
Old decora style outlets
by Lostazhell. 04/22/17 07:59 PM
Permit Snafus...AHJs and Contractors Jump in
by gfretwell. 04/22/17 01:11 PM
How do you find a good employee?
by HotLine1. 04/22/17 10:44 AM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
234,727 Are you busy
169,482 Re: Forum
162,774 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (LongRunner), 78 guests, and 11 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#186334 - 05/05/09 11:13 PM PVC underground installation  
sparky13090  Offline
New Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1
Syracuse, ny usa
Is an expansion fitting needed when a 4 inch s80 PVC is stubbed out of the ground to the bottom of a 400 amp disconnect switch (3R)?

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#186338 - 05/06/09 05:23 AM Re: PVC underground installation [Re: sparky13090]  
sparkyinak  Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,317
nope. Expansion fittings are only required in exposed areas like on roofs or exterior overhead racks.

Last edited by sparkyinak; 05/06/09 05:24 AM.

"Live Awesome!" - Kevin Carosa

#186341 - 05/06/09 10:33 AM Re: PVC underground installation [Re: sparkyinak]  
homer  Offline
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 68
Vancouver, WA, USA
Sparkyinak is technically correct according to NEC 352.44. There is not enough thermal expansion in the 7' of PVC riser to need an expansion fitting.

However, frost heave can cause damage to PVC. As the ground freezes in areas of cold winters, the ground actually slowly rises. This can put quite a bit of pressure on a PVC riser if it is entering a CT cabinet or other fixed cabinet. PVC also gets very brittle when cold and also as it ages. So over time, pvc conduits in cold areas can be damaged by the frost.

I have been asked to install expansion fittings by inspectors in cold areas, and some inspectors interpret 352.44 to include frost heave movement, even though it is not specifically mentioned. This subject certainly can be debated either way, depending on your point of view.

#186342 - 05/06/09 11:06 AM Re: PVC underground installation [Re: homer]  
leland  Offline
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Lowell area, Ma. USA
352.40 "......shall be fastened so that movement from thermal expansion or contraction shall be permitted."

352.44 calls for expansion fitting if movement of 1/4" or more is expected."In a straight run between securely mounted items...." (2008 NEC)

My direct answer (opinion)Would be: if you anticipate a 1/4" movement or more, Yes, you need an expansion fitting.

#186351 - 05/07/09 12:42 AM Re: PVC underground installation [Re: leland]  
sparkyinak  Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,317
Although the NEC does not spell it out, the NEC handbooks states that expansion fittings are not typically used in underground work. typically pipes are buried below the frost line to prevent upheaval (spelling). Below the frot line the temp is pretty much constant. I also do believe if you read the expansion fittings lititerture, it also talks about not needed in underground work

"Live Awesome!" - Kevin Carosa

#186352 - 05/07/09 01:24 AM Re: PVC underground installation [Re: sparkyinak]  
leland  Offline
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Lowell area, Ma. USA
Agreed Sparky. (never intended to imply expansions under ground)
By the way,I have never seen the conduit move and the wires not.
So when does the 'expansion Conductors' come out? smile

the system worked this long,Why the change? (rhetorical of course)

#186359 - 05/07/09 02:00 PM Re: PVC underground installation [Re: leland]  
gfretwell  Offline

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,069
Aren't concentric knockouts "expansion fittings"? wink
That is usually what I see separate if the PVC moves.

The wire usually has enough slack that it can take up any movement in the raceway.

Greg Fretwell

Member Spotlight
Posts: 28
Joined: February 2011
Show All Member Profiles 

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.017s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.7850 MB (Peak: 0.9421 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-04-26 13:44:45 UTC