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#186243 - 04/28/09 12:10 PM Bio-Diesel classification ????  
Yoopersup  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 822
Michigan
Bio-Diesel plant . Article 500??? Explosion proof requirements if any???
Got any answers out there??
Yoopersup


2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#186245 - 04/28/09 12:23 PM Re: Bio-Diesel classification ???? [Re: Yoopersup]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,099
Estero,Fl,usa
This is sort of where the bulk fuel plant crosses into deep fryer hood territory isn't it?


Greg Fretwell

#186262 - 04/29/09 12:31 AM Re: Bio-Diesel classification ???? [Re: gfretwell]  
frenchelectrican  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 939
Wi/ Paris France { France for ...
Originally Posted by gfretwell
This is sort of where the bulk fuel plant crosses into deep fryer hood territory isn't it?


MDR { LoL }.,,

Normally the diesel fuel mixed with Biofuel set up it is no worst than normal diesel fuel due the flash point is about roughly the same as conventail diesel fuel is. and I don't think it need specal class for it unless the Inspector required it.

Merci,Marc


Pas de problme,il marche n'est-ce pas?"(No problem, it works doesn't it?)


#186263 - 04/29/09 09:27 AM Re: Bio-Diesel classification ???? [Re: frenchelectrican]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,853
Brick, NJ USA
I agree with Marc.
There was a 'large' bio-diesel facility that was coming soon here....but it never happened. Existing structure, rail access, large tanks delivered to site..then nothing! May have been a $$$ problem.


John

#186269 - 04/29/09 11:20 PM Re: Bio-Diesel classification ???? [Re: HotLine1]  
Jim M  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 457
Chestertown, MD, USA
I am finishing up a house where the HO wants to process the fry oil into bio-diesel. Sounds like you just need to filter out the fry bits and evaporate the water out of it.

He says he will just use 3 water heater type elements to remove the water.


#186270 - 04/29/09 11:50 PM Re: Bio-Diesel classification ???? [Re: Jim M]  
frenchelectrican  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 939
Wi/ Paris France { France for ...
Originally Posted by Jim M
I am finishing up a house where the HO wants to process the fry oil into bio-diesel. Sounds like you just need to filter out the fry bits and evaporate the water out of it.

He says he will just use 3 water heater type elements to remove the water.


Jim,

I hope that person do understand about useing waterheater element in WFO { waste fryer oil } can raise some issue espceally when they are heated pretty well.

Mention to them about drum heater they are somehow safer this way.

Merci,Marc


Pas de problme,il marche n'est-ce pas?"(No problem, it works doesn't it?)


#186272 - 04/29/09 11:57 PM Re: Bio-Diesel classification ???? [Re: frenchelectrican]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,099
Estero,Fl,usa
You are starting to see why I brought up the "fryer hood" thing huh?
Electric element, tub of oil ... what could possibly go wrong? wink


Greg Fretwell

#186273 - 04/30/09 12:18 AM Re: Bio-Diesel classification ???? [Re: gfretwell]  
frenchelectrican  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 939
Wi/ Paris France { France for ...
Yeah Greg.

I can see your point related to this situation but if you get the oil hot engough it will take off by itself or some dolt induce pure oxygen and you know what this will happend ?? blink

I did see the fryer oil catch on fire before.

Basically when it get heated up they have about the same heat intensty of convetinal diesel fuel / heating fuel oil once they lit up they will just take off pretty fast.

Merci,Marc


Pas de problme,il marche n'est-ce pas?"(No problem, it works doesn't it?)


#186279 - 04/30/09 03:14 PM Re: Bio-Diesel classification ???? [Re: Jim M]  
LarryC  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 783
Winchester, NH, US
Processing waste Fryer oil into bio DIESEL requires more than just filters and evaporating the water. Things include chemically strong base (Lye) and an alcohol (Methanol).

Both compounds are extremely reactive and if mishandled can either burn or poison someone very easily. Plus we also have the washing process to clean the final product.

So at least, he is looking at a wet environment, flammible storage, chemical storage, electrical heating elements, pumps, and few other assorted hazards.

Sounds like it should be a piece of cake. smile

If he is looking to use Vegatable oil to power engines or burners, then he has to deal with filtering, drying, and mixing of the oil into conventional petroleum fuel. Plus heating the oil prior to use in cold weather.

Absolutely no hazards there either. smile

If all of those hazards are addressed, then go right ahead, but please notify the local fire department so they know what hazards might be there if a fire does occurs.

Larry C


#186296 - 05/01/09 05:02 PM Re: Bio-Diesel classification ???? [Re: LarryC]  
Alan Belson  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,803
Mayenne N. France
Biodiesel has a higher flash point/auto ignition temperature than diesel oil.

Here's my list of fuels, which may prove handy if you ever get invited to a Geeks Convention! laugh

Temperatures are in degrees C
Exact flash and ignition temperatures of oils/fat fuels cannot be given, due to their variability.
All the figures quoted below are published figures from reliable sources.
‘Flash points’ for vegetable oils/fats are about 140-190șC in a pressure jet burner spray arrangement- see video below.
The true flash point for vegetable oil is around 240șC
Diesel oils flash point: 70-130șC depending on grade and blend.
B100 Biodiesel flash point: 150-220șC depending on quality and feedstock vegetable oil/fat. B100 IS PURE BIODIESEL. When cut with regular diesel the number represents the biodiesel percent. B3 is 3% biodiesel for instance.

Auto Ignition point for vegetable oil is about 245șC.
An electric arc in air is at a temperature of over 3700șC.
Auto ignition points for various fuels show a wide variation:
FUEL AUTO IGNITION TEMPERATURE șC
Hydrogen 500
Carbon monoxide 609
Methane 580
Acetylene 305
Ethylene 490
Ethyl Alcohol 365
Gasoline 280
Diesel [ #2 oil] 256
Kerosene [UK=paraffin] 210
Vegetable oil c.245
Paper 236
Propane 480
Butane 420
Oak [dry] 480
Peat 227
Charcoal [aged] 350
Bituminous coal 300
B100 Biodiesel c.235


For home heating purposes IMHO there is no point in converting WVO to biodiesel, as the methanol and other chemical costs make it only viable for use in engines or to deny Gummints' Revenue Men. And, Larry, you are right about the hazards of messing with lye and methanol - methoxide is a lethal poison that can enter via your skin. It is also self-anaethetizing so you don't notice the big hole you just burned right through your hand till you see your feet through the hole! DON'T MESS WITH MAKING BIODIESEL AT HOME!

Just clean the WVO of fries, chickens and dead customers, [I use a centrifuge], but a special burner is needed. Here's a typical WVO burner - but be aware, this is an advert....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4ZriEMN0FQ&feature=channel

My atavar shows my version, still being developped.

Alan






Wood work but can't!

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