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#184104 - 02/01/09 04:39 PM Permit required or not?  
2000xp8  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 33
NJ
OK, here's the situation.
Replaced a subpanel at a friends auto shop.
Commercial location, 6 seperate shops (only one is his)
6 meter stack with all the main breakers about 50 ft to the front of the building.
Each shop has it's own 150amp sub.

Well, my friend had his yearly fire inspection, and the fire inspector told the electrical inspector that the shop had a new panel.
Electrical inspector shows up, and wants a permit pulled.

I replaced a 20 space main lug panel with another 20 space main lug panel.

IMO, this falls under repair. According to the Uniform building code repair is defined as replacing a like item with a like item.

Of course i could pull the permits, but after speaking with people during my continued education (uniform building code), i should not have to.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Joe


NJ licensed electrician

Building Codes & Related References

#184105 - 02/01/09 05:35 PM Re: Permit required or not? [Re: 2000xp8]  
leland  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Lowell area, Ma. USA
Check your General laws regarding electrical wiring regulations.

In Ma, We MUST pull a permit. Even for the simplest of tasks.

"Any person installing for hire electrical wiring... Shall notify the inspector of wires 'In writing'...."


#184106 - 02/01/09 06:51 PM Re: Permit required or not? [Re: leland]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,864
Brick, NJ USA
Joe:
Whoever told you that a permit is 'not required' for a panel change is incorrect!

Refer to the UCC (5:23-2.7- (c)3.i;ii;iii;iv; for items that are considered 'ordinary repairs' within the Electrical Sub-Code (5:23-3.16)

Keep in mind that what you hear from other people can sometimes be incorrect, as the UCC book is not something that many EC's have/own.

You can check the section I quoted above on-line thru the DCA portal website. (It's boring reading, as it's Law)

Remember, NJ AHJ's will quote you the Article that they are referencing, if you ask.



John

#184108 - 02/01/09 07:24 PM Re: Permit required or not? [Re: HotLine1]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,864
Brick, NJ USA
Joe:
Here's the location for DCA:

http://www.nj.gov/dca/codes/

Follow down to the center of the page & click on 'Minor Work'...go the Electrical, (Pg 4). those are the only items that a permit is not required for.


Last edited by HotLine1; 02/01/09 07:26 PM.

John

#184109 - 02/01/09 08:27 PM Re: Permit required or not? [Re: HotLine1]  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
HotLine ... that is an interesting link. I note that replacing an oven, stove, or dryer receptacle requires a permit .... yet replacing a hard-wired appliance does not!

Indeed, the 'other trades' have quite detailed lists of what they can do without a permit, while the electrical exemptions are quite limited.


#184110 - 02/01/09 09:02 PM Re: Permit required or not? [Re: renosteinke]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,864
Brick, NJ USA
Reno:
Thanks! As I said, many EC's don't have a grip on the UCC. Now that it's available on-line.....maybe more will check it out.



John

#184113 - 02/02/09 01:29 AM Re: Permit required or not? [Re: HotLine1]  
leland  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Lowell area, Ma. USA
Interesting read, thanks.
In 23 years I have never referd to anything except my State codes,I have never been referd to any other codes. Perhaps this is because of stringent State codes.
Never even had an inspector refer to any of the standards I read about here, Except The NFPA stuff (thats not amended).


#184117 - 02/02/09 10:58 AM Re: Permit required or not? [Re: leland]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,864
Brick, NJ USA
Leland:
You are not alone! As I said above many, many NJ EC's are unaware of the UCC regs. There are also amendments to the NEC that are part of 5:23-3.16 (Electrical Sub-Code), one of which has kept the dreaded AFCI's away.

It's not 'interesting reading', as it's Law, written by lawyers, of which we may hold a record!

Stay safe


John

#184119 - 02/02/09 02:32 PM Re: Permit required or not? [Re: HotLine1]  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Do I read that correctly, that replacing even a single breaker would require a permit?

If so ... isn't that over-reaching a bit?


#184122 - 02/02/09 03:46 PM Re: Permit required or not? [Re: renosteinke]  
2000xp8  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 33
NJ
Hotline, thanks for the links. Pretty much gives me the answers i need.
Looks as if it's written in a manner that pretty much suggests you get a permit for damn near everything other than replacing a bad receptacle. Guess that's how they cover their butts.

Reno, if i'm interpreting it correctly (and i may not be), you could replace up to a single pole 20amp breaker.
This way the amps is 20 or less and the volts are less than 150.


NJ licensed electrician

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