ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
dsk 13
doc 3
Admin 3
Recent Posts
Bathroom electrical
by doc. 08/19/17 06:53 AM
electircal ageing test on IPC
by SIAME. 08/15/17 02:43 AM
electrical aging test on IPC
by gfretwell. 08/15/17 12:27 AM
"Line level" audio on Cat 5?
by gfretwell. 08/08/17 10:39 PM
Fire alarm phone lines and color coding
by gfretwell. 08/08/17 10:26 PM
New in the Gallery:
Housebilding DIY wiring
Popular Topics(Views)
239,938 Are you busy
175,524 Re: Forum
167,787 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (doc), 61 guests, and 10 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#183786 - 01/22/09 01:52 PM Question regarding 314.27[A]  
KJay  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 763
MA, USA
I have a question regarding 2008 NEC 314.27[A], Outlet Boxes, which states...
"Boxes used at luminaire and lampholder outlets in ceilings shall be designed for the purpose and shall be required to support a luminaire weighing a minimum of 50 lbs."

Does this mean that the familiar round old-work boxes that are supported by the drywall ceiling with clamps are allowed to be used only for supporting lightweight, non-lighting related items, such as, smoke detectors, etcÖ?

I have heard this before, but am wondering if this is actually enforced in old-work situations?

Thanks



2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#183787 - 01/22/09 02:35 PM Re: Question regarding 314.27[A] [Re: KJay]  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
You understand correctly.

A look at the UL White book will reveal that 'new construction' boxes are rated for 50 lbs, while the 'old work' boxes are rated only at 6 lbs.

With such a difference in design criteria, I suspect enforcement is what you call it whan any but the lightest fixtures fall out.


#183791 - 01/22/09 03:02 PM Re: Question regarding 314.27[A] [Re: renosteinke]  
SteveFehr  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,208
Chesapeake, VA
Good news, 314.27(A) doesn't prohibit ceiling fans!


#183794 - 01/22/09 04:04 PM Re: Question regarding 314.27[A] [Re: SteveFehr]  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Sure ... but elsewhere we are told to use only ;fan rated' boxes for fans. I have something of a problem with this, as the traditional steel box screwed to a solid lumber brace you've installed has no such official rating.

Well, that's what proposals are for ....


#183800 - 01/22/09 06:09 PM Re: Question regarding 314.27[A] [Re: renosteinke]  
KJay  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 763
MA, USA
I'm just thinking back over the years about the dozens and dozens of fixtures that I have added and installed using these old-work boxes. I canít remember ever installing a fixture that weighed more than a couple of pounds on these, let alone 6-pounds, but I guess I could see someone else who didnít know any better, coming in behind me and installing some 18-pound drywall-breaking behemoth at a later date. eek

I don't think anyone with even limited trade knowledge or common sense would attempt to install a heavy fixture on one of these boxes, but apparently the NEC is concerned that the homeowner, handyman, maintenance person or other unqualified individual will do just that. Probably similar as to the reason why we now need to have handle ties on all multi-wire branch circuits... to protect the unqualified individuals who have no business doing what they are doing anyway. frown



#183824 - 01/23/09 02:48 AM Re: Question regarding 314.27[A] [Re: KJay]  
pdh  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 354
Much of the code is about handyman-proofing electrical installations frown


#183864 - 01/24/09 03:19 PM Re: Question regarding 314.27[A] [Re: pdh]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,103
Estero,Fl,usa
As long as they sell books and materials aimed at the homeowner, unqualified installers will be a reality.
Even the penny pinching national builder my wife worked for spec'ed fan boxes for all ceiling outlets, even some that would not have room for the blades of a fan like a water closet.


Greg Fretwell

#183867 - 01/24/09 05:47 PM Re: Question regarding 314.27[A] [Re: gfretwell]  
leland  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Lowell area, Ma. USA
NEC exactly that, NATIONAL. Check the forums,Some places all you need to do is pronounce the word electricity, And suddenly, Your an EC.

That's why I like Massachusetts (one of the VERY few reasons):
527 CMR 12.00- Rule #8.
That is, You need a license,certificate of insurance or a signed waiver from the customer acknowledging they know you don't have insurance.To pull a permit.

Also MGL Chapter 141: Pretty much seals the deal.

Along with the usual Government business forms and taxes etc.

However, some Inspectors will allow Homeowner permits,for 'public relation' reasons (BOOO !!)


#183868 - 01/24/09 06:56 PM Re: Question regarding 314.27[A] [Re: leland]  
leland  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Lowell area, Ma. USA
My Goof: law reads: (in short) MGL chapter 143 sec.3L.
"...No person shall install for 'Hire' any electrical wiring or fixtures subject to this section with out first given notice to...."

So i guess Joe can Burn his own house down. (Boooo)

Last edited by leland; 01/24/09 06:57 PM. Reason: 143 sec 3L

#183877 - 01/24/09 10:36 PM Re: Question regarding 314.27[A] [Re: leland]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,103
Estero,Fl,usa
It would seem to be unAmerican if a land owner didn't have the right to maintain his own property in the cradle of liberty. It would make you want to go down to Concord and shoot some redcoats


Greg Fretwell

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Member Spotlight
Joe Tedesco
Joe Tedesco
Boston, Massachusetts USA
Posts: 2,749
Joined: October 2000
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.020s Queries: 16 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8211 MB (Peak: 1.0007 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-08-19 11:25:17 UTC