ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Potseal 11
Recent Posts
Permit Snafus...AHJs and Contractors Jump in
by HotLine1. 04/30/17 02:30 PM
201 volt equipment?
by bigpapa. 04/29/17 12:15 AM
Schneider LC1D09
by jraef. 04/28/17 11:05 PM
Electrode boilers question
by annemarie1. 04/27/17 01:40 PM
Why cables look like they do
by LongRunner. 04/26/17 09:36 AM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
235,042 Are you busy
169,884 Re: Forum
163,072 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 51 guests, and 9 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
#179312 - 07/06/08 05:47 PM Older Homes  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Just about every "alphabet" group you can think of recently took part in a survey of older homes, and their electrical systems.

30 homes, slated for demolition, were examined from service drop to outlet. Components were sent to a lab for further examination and testing.

With the NFPA asserting over 24,000 household fires - and a disproportionate share of these being in homes older than 40 years - are caused by the electrical system, what causes do you think the study found?

(I'm cheating ... I have a preliminary draft of the report ... I just want to see what "conventional wisdom" thinks laugh )


Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#179313 - 07/06/08 05:48 PM Re: Older Homes [Re: renosteinke]  
SolarPowered  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 625
Palo Alto, CA, USA
I suspect homeowner modifications will rank high on this list. As will deteriorating insulation. And probably a certain amount of damage from rodents, birds, and the like.

I expect there will also be assorted problems at receptacles.


#179314 - 07/06/08 05:54 PM Re: Older Homes [Re: SolarPowered]  
twh  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 905
Regina, Sask.
Thirty homes is a small sample considering the number of homes that don't burn down. I would guess that very few had electrical problems.


#179315 - 07/06/08 06:49 PM Re: Older Homes [Re: twh]  
gfretwell  Online Content


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,069
Estero,Fl,usa
I think most problems are on the load side of the outlets.


Greg Fretwell

#179316 - 07/06/08 09:27 PM Re: Older Homes [Re: gfretwell]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,812
Brick, NJ USA
I have to agree with Greg that what is plugged-in would be a primary cause. A lot used to be attributed to 'overfusing', in the days (and areas) that edison base fuses were prevelant, of which I saw my share.

I remember the guy at a local hardware store commenting something to the effect of....'we used to sell a lot of 15 & 20 amp fuses; but since a lot of people started buying the 30's, sales have slowed way down'.

Fire cause determined to be caused by 'electrical' seems to be vague; it should be broken out into utilization equipment and premises wiring.





John

#179317 - 07/06/08 10:04 PM Re: Older Homes [Re: HotLine1]  
EV607797  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 745
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
I'd say improper use of extension cords would be #1 and fuse tampering would be #2. I get so mad when they report a fire on TV news and cite the cause as being electrical. Later they report that three portable heaters were plugged into a 100' 16/3 extension cord. That isn't an electrical fire.....That is a stupidity fire.

Something tells me that aluminum wiring is going to get thrown under the bus on this report too.


---Ed---

"But the guy at Home Depot said it would work."

#179318 - 07/06/08 10:10 PM Re: Older Homes [Re: EV607797]  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Actually ... aluminum missed the bus - this time! The houses all pre-dated the aluminum wiring craze.


#179319 - 07/07/08 12:16 AM Re: Older Homes [Re: EV607797]  
leland  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Lowell area, Ma. USA
Originally Posted by EV607797
I'd say improper use of extension cords would be #1 and fuse tampering would be #2. I get so mad when they report a fire on TV news and cite the cause as being electrical. Later they report that three portable heaters were plugged into a 100' 16/3 extension cord. That isn't an electrical fire.....That is a stupidity fire.

Something tells me that aluminum wiring is going to get thrown under the bus on this report too.



I'm right there with you on this!!!
But I say "Fire alarm" and my insurance rates (liability) go right thru the roof !!!! I prevent this crap!!! (Or at least detect it)
But I digress.. I will go with poor/loose connections at the devices. Wich coincides with the overloading of appliances. (whoa.. Both ends to the middle. Smooth.. No?):)

Last edited by leland; 07/07/08 12:18 AM.

#179321 - 07/07/08 10:02 AM Re: Older Homes [Re: leland]  
Zapped  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 482
Huntington Beach, CA, USA
As stated above, I'm sure deterioration from misuse on the load side is gonna be right up there.

Also, I would guess that, if the homes were old enough, they probably found quite a few exposed wire joints. I've found that the old solder-and-wrap method of wire joining, although good from an electrical conduction standpoint, suffer from deterioration of the wrapping materials and don't handle maintenance and handling too well. Also, a few times being pulled in and out of the junction box for add-ons and repairs tends to break up the old cloth insulation pretty badly too.

So, I would guess that they would classify this as "post-build maintenance damage", or something like that.

Induced voltage is also prevalent in these old installations.

Improperly bonded and altogether loss of the grounding system also comes to mind.


#179322 - 07/07/08 10:04 AM Re: Older Homes [Re: Zapped]  
Zapped  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 482
Huntington Beach, CA, USA
BTW, what a great idea for a study... I'm sure there was quite a bit to learn from this. I would have loved to have been on that archeological dig.


Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

Member Spotlight
mersadrad
mersadrad
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 28
Joined: March 2011
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.022s Queries: 16 (0.004s) Memory: 0.8231 MB (Peak: 1.0025 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-05-01 02:20:25 UTC