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#178580 - 06/05/08 06:56 PM Final Inspection  
ccdave  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 59
culver city,calif. usa
Is it in the 2005 nec that all breakers must be labeled?
where please


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#178585 - 06/05/08 08:55 PM Re: Final Inspection [Re: ccdave]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,872
Brick, NJ USA
110.22 comes to mind in 2005 & previous


John

#178621 - 06/06/08 07:34 PM Re: Final Inspection [Re: HotLine1]  
resqcapt19  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
2005 code
Quote
408.4 Circuit Directory or Circuit Identification
Every circuit and circuit modification shall be legibly identified as to its clear, evident, and specific purpose or use. The identification shall include sufficient detail to allow each circuit to be distinguished from all others. The identification shall be included in a circuit directory that is located on the face or inside of the panel door in the case of a panelboard, and located at each switch on a switchboard.

2008 code
Quote
408.4 Circuit Directory or Circuit Identification.
Every circuit and circuit modification shall be legibly identified as to its clear, evident, and specific purpose or use. The identification shall include sufficient detail to allow each circuit to be distinguished from all others. Spare positions that contain unused overcurrent devices or switches shall be described accordingly. The identification shall be included in a circuit directory that is located on the face or inside of the panel door in the case of a panelboard, and located at each switch on a switchboard. No circuit shall be described in a manner that depends on transient conditions of occupancy.


Don(resqcapt19)

#178623 - 06/06/08 08:52 PM Re: Final Inspection [Re: resqcapt19]  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Just a reminder ....

It is my practice to completely ignore the card/ sticker / label that comes with the panel. Instead, it is my practice to place a printed label on the face of the breaker itself.

Why? Because the ID remains even after you remove the cover, and you can re-position breakers at will. But I digress ...

Some folks took the position that the code, by requiring a "directory," either banned this practice of mine, or still required that the card be filled out.

For the 2008 code, I proposed that my method be allowed. The code panel's response was heartening: they said no change was needed, because, in their opinion, my method was already allowed by the code language.

So ... let's not get hung up on that word 'directory.'


#178680 - 06/09/08 07:00 AM Re: Final Inspection [Re: resqcapt19]  
Texas_Ranger  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,402
Vienna, Austria
Quote
No circuit shall be described in a manner that depends on transient conditions of occupancy.

How are you supposed to do that in say a residence with 5 bedrooms? Even if you number them anyone trying to identify the purpose of a breaker would need a plan with the room numbers, and likewise "north bedroom" would require a compass...


#178681 - 06/09/08 08:24 AM Re: Final Inspection [Re: Texas_Ranger]  
NORCAL  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 873
My opinion is the intent is for someone not to label a panel "Billy's bedroom" or "John's office" where the orig. occupants are long gone & then coming in trying to decide which is which.......


#178686 - 06/09/08 11:00 AM Re: Final Inspection [Re: NORCAL]  
BPHgravity  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 139
Port Charlotte, Florida
I think the intent of the code is to get away from seeing directories that list several breakers as "lights" or "outlets" or "plugs".

Homeowners and lay people don't know the lingo either and especially when things are spelled wrong like:

"lites", D/W, D/P, W/H, "smokes", "kit", "bath", "wash", "dry", ect.


Good examples would be:

"Master bathroom receptacles", "Guest Bedroom lighting and outlets", "dishwaher and disposer", Clothes Washer, Closthes Dryer, ect.


Bryan P. Holland, ECO.
Secretary - IAEI Florida Chapter

#178689 - 06/09/08 12:07 PM Re: Final Inspection [Re: BPHgravity]  
SteveFehr  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,213
Chesapeake, VA
I may be biased coming from an environment where everything was extremely well documented, but nothing can replace an accurate drawing. For something like receptacles, the only way to show it with no ambiguity is an actual labeled map of the building, with each receptacle, where it's fed from, and how the wiring is configured. I'd go as far as to say it should be required by building code to be updated to reflect as-built condition. Not necessarily full engineering drawings, but at least accurate and legible shop sketches.

And yes, I know this would be very difficult to do "the way it's always been done", but I contest the way it's always been done is wrong.


#178691 - 06/09/08 12:29 PM Re: Final Inspection [Re: SteveFehr]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,123
Estero,Fl,usa
Steve, that is a great goal and I am in the process of doing that at my house as we speak but it in unenforceable in most residential construction scenarios.
Even in "cookie cutter" houses that you would assume are all wired alike the sparkies tend to take liberties with the plans because the buyer usually gets a chance to place outlets on the pre-drywall walk. As long as the outlet spacing is OK and the load seems to be evenly distributed across the GL circuits there is no good reason to fail them.
The electrical plan is really just a guideline at that point.
I would certainly not trust it as a point to point wiring diagram even if the receptacle and lighting distribution was right.


Greg Fretwell

#178695 - 06/09/08 06:39 PM Re: Final Inspection [Re: gfretwell]  
jdevlin  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 402
welland ontario canada
Panle lables get really interesting in commercial. You find a breaker labled Joe Blow office. You need to find someone who has been working there for 25 years since Joe retired 20 years ago.


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