ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Trumpy 5
Recent Posts
What do you do?
by gfretwell. 09/24/17 12:05 PM
75 kva tranformer
by sparkync. 09/23/17 06:41 PM
Another generator question
by gfretwell. 09/23/17 04:15 PM
Supporting conduit bodies
by ghost307. 09/18/17 12:12 PM
Thermal Imaging Camera upgrade
by Potseal. 09/18/17 11:57 AM
New in the Gallery:
Gallery Test
Popular Topics(Views)
240,926 Are you busy
176,723 Re: Forum
168,578 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 38 guests, and 7 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#172043 - 12/11/07 07:01 PM OT : Train wreck.  
Sandro  Offline
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 444
Stoney Creek, ON, Canada

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#172045 - 12/11/07 07:14 PM Re: OT : Train wreck. [Re: Sandro]  
ausador  Offline
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 49
Central Florida
UHH....The track signal lights were functioning and red (as in stop)...although any kind of crash video is usually worth watching, even if just to say "thank god it wasn't me"....what does this have to do with any kind of electrical knowledge/experience/code?

The train that was stoped and waiting to proceed pulled too far forward on the switch track and presented a side swipe hazard to the oncoming moving train....not exactly a "head-on".....

#172051 - 12/11/07 08:31 PM Re: OT : Train wreck. [Re: ausador]  
frenchelectrican  Offline
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 939
Wi/ Paris France { France for ...
I did see that veido before and what the curpit was the other train did not make a full stop it was creeping along and somehow the enigineer did make a miscaluaction on this one.

Merci, Marc

Pas de problme,il marche n'est-ce pas?"(No problem, it works doesn't it?)

#172081 - 12/12/07 03:56 AM Re: OT : Train wreck. [Re: frenchelectrican]  
Active 1  Offline
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 687
Grayslake IL, USA

#172083 - 12/12/07 08:53 AM Re: OT : Train wreck. [Re: Active 1]  
BrianP  Offline
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 65
You can see the signal change to stop as the train approaches, probably due to the oncoming train passing its signal. You can also see someone jump from the oncoming train shortly before the collision.

#172223 - 12/16/07 01:17 PM Re: OT : Train wreck. [Re: BrianP]  
Scott35  Offline

Broom Pusher and
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,707
Anaheim, CA. USA
Just saw the video of the collision, and have a few things to mention.

1st, the Automatic Block Signal that is protecting the distant signal (the ABS is the signal at the grade crossing - shown at the beginning of the video), appeared to indicate "Red over Yellow", which would be the correct signal aspect for that Train, if it was to enter the approaching siding.
It is allowed to pass that signal at at restricted speed (typically reduce to 30 MPH).

The ABS appears to change to "Red over Red" as the Train enters the fouling point.
Nevertheless, the Train with the Camera in it (looks like the cab of an SD 70M), was to reduce speed, ready to enter the diverging route at the next signal.

From the sounds of things, the crew was bringing the speed down - as the sounds of Air Brake Applications are heard intermittantly.

2: As the Train approaches the curve, braking was applied normally, and the Train appears to be slowing as it would typically do to enter the diverging route.

3: When the crew rounded the curve, they placed the Air Brakes into "Full Application", so to enter the turnout within prescribed speed (looks like a 30 MPH turnout).

4: As the BNSF Freight rolls past the Block signal on its side, the "Pull-In" Block signal for the Train with the Camera in it changed from "Red over Green" (a normal indication for clear to enter diverging route), to "Red over Red" (absolute stop).

The switchpoint were already aligned for the "Camera Train" to enter the siding, and all signal aspects were corresponding to that action.

It was only after the BNSF Train fouled the block limits that the entrance signal went full restricive (Red-Red).

The BNSF Train was supposed to stop clear of its block signal, but rolled past it for some reason - which will be found out by Event Recorder data analysis.

The crew of the BNSF train had it slow enough to bail out - that's why you see someone jumping off the train.

Standard procedure is to set the Air Brakes into "Emergency Application", and place the Dynamic Brake throttle to position 8, then once the Locomotives are in emergency, the crew jumps out (enjoying a face full of Ballast as they hit the ground!).

Now, the question is:
Why the BNSF train rolled through the block?

May be one of three things:

A- Braking malfunction (not enough air, trainline malfunction, automatic / independent brakes not lapping, etc.),

B- Malfunctioning Block Signal on the BNSF side:
Entrance Block signal may have indicated green (or yellow) over red, and the end of block absolute signal may had indicated yellow over red, or even a clear block aspect.
The signal facing the oncoming BNSF Train at the end of that block (end of the siding) should have been "Red-Red" ONLY!!!
The Entrance Block signal should had been Solid Yellow over Red ONLY!!!

C- The BNSF crew judged the stop incorrectly, and rolled it through the block.

The sad thing is, the crew in the Train with the camera had no idea of the fouled block until it was too late!
If they did, their Train would have been set into full emergency too, possibly stopping short of the turnout.

I hope they got out, or at least hit the floor before the collision!

It could have been much worse - a head on situation would have killed the crews of either Train, if they were unable to bail out.
At least with the low speed side-swipe, you can walk away from it!


Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

#172266 - 12/17/07 08:39 AM Re: OT : Train wreck. [Re: Scott35]  
Texas_Ranger  Offline
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,402
Vienna, Austria
That reminds me of a terrible crash on the old Vienna subway system.
In the late 1970s the signalling system was ancient (1924-25) and malfunctions (mainly permanent red i.e. "STOP") were nothing unusual. So, the ingenious management devised a way to circumvent that... after stopping for a defined time at the red signal, the motorman was allowed to enter the next block at 15km/h (given the extremely dim headlights of the cars built in the 1950s that was pretty hefty inside a tunnel or open cut).

After a soccer match, "fans" started to wreak havoc on one train, unscrewing the light bulbs. Supposedly the tail light was on the same series as the inside light... (those old cars had 95V incandescent bulbs wired in series to the 750V DC traction power). So, the rear of the train was dark. Before descending at the Meidling Hauptstra├če stop they pulled the passenger emergency brake handle. In spite of this, the train pulled out of the station, coming to a halt on the open tracks.
The motorman of the next train waited at the red signal, then continued at 15km/h (roughly 10 mph). Suddenly he noticed the block signal ahead of him being green and accelerated to the full speed of 40km/h. However, he failed to notice the unlit train between himself and the green signal, crashing into it at full speed... luckily no one died, the second motorman only had a broken arm (pretty miraculous for such a crash).
Brake failures were pretty common back then too - the trains had only pneumatic brakes operating by cast iron pads. Those pads had to be readjusted frequently (several times per day I guess) due to abrasion and the pneumatic system was old and undersized - the cars had been built in 1954- 1961 using most of the pneumatic parts of the older 1924-1929 cars but adding a second brake system, pneumatic doors and some other systems to the old compressors.

#173717 - 01/17/08 12:43 AM Re: OT : Train wreck. [Re: Texas_Ranger]  
Scott35  Offline

Broom Pusher and
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,707
Anaheim, CA. USA
Just bumping this back to life again!

BTW, what was the verdict? did the other Freight Train roll past the CP, or was there signal failure?
(or was this TWC territory?).

I gotta know!!!


Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

#173744 - 01/17/08 06:34 PM Re: OT : Train wreck. [Re: Scott35]  
togol  Offline
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 421
Scott, I am in no way an expert, ..and this is just a minor observation.....

but those engines look like GE -7, 8, or 9

I don't know the physical differences enough between those three,
they just don't look like they are EMD.


#173755 - 01/17/08 08:54 PM Re: OT : Train wreck. [Re: togol]  
frenchelectrican  Offline
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 939
Wi/ Paris France { France for ...
both dash8 and dash 9 later models with widecab the dash 9 have winged radaitor housing while the newest one are vee format sorta wide vee arrangement the reason why they went that route due intercooler circuit.

the new generation are V-12 engine they can dish out 4400 hp but they have v-16 verison it can crank out serious amout of HP much as 6,000 hp but allready have some issue with it and have to derated it some.

Merci, Marc

Pas de problme,il marche n'est-ce pas?"(No problem, it works doesn't it?)

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Member Spotlight
Delaware County, PA, USA
Posts: 186
Joined: November 2005
Show All Member Profiles 

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman


Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.023s Queries: 16 (0.004s) Memory: 0.8236 MB (Peak: 1.0067 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-09-25 04:27:27 UTC