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#171169 - 11/21/07 10:27 AM Code Question - Service Disconnects.  
Trick440  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 248
Waterford, MI, USA
I have an overhead service install. We have a double lug, 320 meter can.

I came out of the meter to a disconnect, then ran 4 conductor to a detached garage panel. - no problems here.

Heres the problem - I came out of the meter again with only 3 conductors. I ran this wire outside the building 20 feet, then came into the building and immediately into the back of the panel.

The inspector says I need a disconnect at the meter for that panel? I have always heard I could theroretically run the SE cable around the building twice without a disconnect, as long I immediately enter the panel.

He refrenced 230.2, saying it is confussing if they need to interrupt the service. We offered to have a plaque made identifying, denoting the feeders supplying each building.

Opinions please.


Shake n Bake

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#171174 - 11/21/07 11:33 AM Re: Code Question - Service Disconnects. [Re: Trick440]  
leland  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Lowell area, Ma. USA
2 meters I assume?

I don't see a problem under 230.2.
SERV entrance for the garage has a disconnect and so doesn't the house.
only ? may be in 230.72. But then again it is 1 service.


#171178 - 11/21/07 12:19 PM Re: Code Question - Service Disconnects. [Re: leland]  
Alan Nadon  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 399
Elkhart, IN. USA
230.72 Grouping of disconnects.
AHJ may permit it IF it is clearly labeled.
Service Disconnect 1 of 2 Garage ONLY, Disconnect 2 of 2 House ONLY located inside at X place .
It is worth a try.



Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.

#171186 - 11/21/07 05:48 PM Re: Code Question - Service Disconnects. [Re: Alan Nadon]  
Trick440  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 248
Waterford, MI, USA
To clarify its only 1 meter. The meter can is a 320, with double lugs.


Shake n Bake

#171191 - 11/21/07 08:13 PM Re: Code Question - Service Disconnects. [Re: Trick440]  
leland  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Lowell area, Ma. USA
I see no problem.
I may be missing something. Ask the AHJ to expand on this.
230.2 does'nt cover service disconnects anyway.


#171193 - 11/21/07 08:29 PM Re: Code Question - Service Disconnects. [Re: leland]  
Jim M  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 457
Chestertown, MD, USA
Where I am familiar with the panel would need to set next to the disconnect or 2 disconnects would need to be set to comply with Services shall be grouped.


#171246 - 11/23/07 09:23 AM Re: Code Question - Service Disconnects. [Re: Jim M]  
john p  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 32
Bemidji,MN.USA
I believe if you place a disconnect on the house outside you would need both grouped together to eliminate confussion.
Around here I would simply come out of the meter with two 3 wire services. one for the house and one for the garage.


#171252 - 11/23/07 12:22 PM Re: Code Question - Service Disconnects. [Re: john p]  
Trick440  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 248
Waterford, MI, USA
So what I'm seeing here is we think the inspector is correct? Under 230.72.

Hrm... I'm not seeing it as a grouping of disconnects. I really don't see anything in 230.72 that would make this install not in compliance with code.

Besides the disconnect for the garage panel. This is the exact same way a service is ran in 95% of homes. Your telling me, because I add a disconnect.... now I have to add another disconnect because... ? Theres an ID problem? (I can understand clearly ID'ing the garage disconnect, that's code.. ) I could take my 11 yr old son there and he could see that the meter is supplying the building its mounted on. When you want to disconnect the house, I would say disconnect it the exact same way you disconnect the 95% of all other homes the meter or inside panel.

Seems strange to me, If anyone could post the exact article number this violates I would really appreciate it.

I'm wrong all the time. I just like to know how I'm wrong. I use these 320 double lug cans fairly often, I have never ran across this problem and I need to know. The extra cost on this is atleast $200 + addition labor for seperating nuetrals & grounds. I can't waste time and money for something that isn't needed, I may do this same install 300 more times in my life.

Last edited by Trick440; 11/23/07 12:24 PM.

Shake n Bake

#171259 - 11/23/07 01:04 PM Re: Code Question - Service Disconnects. [Re: Trick440]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,118
Estero,Fl,usa
I would question why you needed the disconnect for the garage at the house and the 4 wire feeder to the garage in the first place. Why not just have the disconnect at the garage fed with 3 wire USE and SE running top the disconnect in the house?
That looks like the "Maypole" setup we see a lot around here. If the meter was on a post there wouldn't be a question IMHO.I don't see hanging on the house changing that much if the SEC to the garage left immediately.
I do agree that in an emergency situation a fireman might assume that was the house disconnect. They don't usually stop and read signs if they think they know what they are doing. That is all the time


Greg Fretwell

#171263 - 11/23/07 03:26 PM Re: Code Question - Service Disconnects. [Re: gfretwell]  
leland  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Lowell area, Ma. USA
"I do agree that in an emergency situation a fireman might assume .."

If that was the reason, Would'nt they require a meter disconnect to shut off all loads, As you see In some rural locations.

I see no violation.Again ask for the explanation,and if it is a local code.In Ma. we have ammendments, But they are state wide not Town or County.
On the next one, run the 3 wire to each panel and call it a day.


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