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#164761 - 06/10/07 10:22 PM certification  
jmt  Offline
New Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5
i am interested in ordering mike holts trainibg guides mainly the master/contractor. my question is does the title (master elec,) also cover you the same as a journy man card. if not i was told by another contractor that you could work for another elec, cont, with just your c-10 as a sub and 1099. a co. that he worked for offered this to him to get his c-10 so his boss would not have to pay for workers comp ect. i think that would work out great, get my c-10 and getting top pay (1099) and probaly save the contractor some money like taxes, ins, ect.

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#164767 - 06/10/07 11:04 PM Re: certification [Re: jmt]  
gfretwell  Offline

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,069
Just remember you will be paying all the taxes and insurance you are "saving" the contractor out of your 1099 so that "top pay" starts looking a little smaller.
The good news is if you have a sharp pencil and a knack for the Schedule C you can shave that quite a bit. Just be sure you follow the rules and keep good records or the IRS man will get you.
I prefer 1099s to W2s myself but I am a computer geek who records everything and I can bury the tax man if he calls. On my two audits they ended up writing me a check.

Greg Fretwell

#164772 - 06/10/07 11:58 PM Re: certification [Re: gfretwell]  
LK  Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
You will have way less then top pay after you pay your taxes, and the so his boss would not have to pay for workers comp ect, may not work well either, If i was to pay someone on a 1099, my insurance company would want a certificate showing the 1099 employee had comp coverage or I would have to pay the coverage, some try to get away with this and all is well and good until they catch up with them, by then the amounts are so high no one can pay them. Now remember this differes from state to state, so just check your state laws before jumping into something that may cost you.

#164773 - 06/11/07 01:34 AM Re: certification [Re: LK]  
jmt  Offline
New Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5
thanx guys, i know that a c-10 is not enough if you are working for another co. and you still need to show your journeymans card. but if i am a lic, cont,insured, and bonded, and the company o k 's this would i still need to have my j card ? you would be working as a sub, for a sub, for the general, or who ever. im sure that all of this will just prove to be fuetile but it bugs me that a c-10 is not = to a j card. what do you think. if i were asked for my card on a job site and told them whats going on and who i am what would happen? stay or get of the job site? oh and whats up with that title master/contrctor to me that should cover both.

#164780 - 06/11/07 07:50 AM Re: certification [Re: jmt]  
electure  Offline

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,259
Fullerton, CA USA
That sounds like a real sweet deal for the C-10 that's hiring you.
He's off the hook for: Workmen's Comp (maybe), Unemployment Insurance, etc.
Of course any benefits you receive will come out of your own money.
Oh yeah, don't forget to add the extra bucks for insurance, bond, etc. and paperwork time. (keep some out for Uncle Sam and Arnie, too). Remember, YOU will be signing a contract and it will be YOUR job, (might even have to pull permits) or you will be in violation.

The whole C-10 subbing for a C-10 (especially hourly on a 1099) scheme might slip through the enormous crevices in the program for a while, but it's certainly not in keeping with the intent of the program. It likely wouldn't last forever.

Why not:
(1) Get a C-10 and your own customers,
(2) Get Certified and work for someone...or
(3) Get ***BOTH***, have some peace of mind, and do either or both if you want at your option.

Unless you're new to the State, you've waited through 4 years of available Certification test dates, and another 6 months after the deadline now. A little late for a Mike Holt book to resolve your situation.

Good Luck smile

(California has no Master's classification.)

#164797 - 06/11/07 04:29 PM Re: certification [Re: electure]  
ChicoC10  Offline
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 169
The way I've read this situation is that you must have the card to work on a C10's payroll even if you hold a C10 yourself. But, as you say, if you sub contract from another C10 on a 1099 basis you are in compliance with the law as long as you hold a C10 yourself. But it is too bad you didn't get your card before the deadline because that would give you all the options.

It can also be a sweet deal for the one man show like myself(I like it that way for now). It's an option I haven't had to use it yet but if I get so buried that I need help for a couple of days to stay on schedule I could sub out to my former employer. Not him personally because he doesn't have the card but he could send one or two of his guys( my old buds) over. I have both the card and the C10 so I can reciprocate either way. I know I would lose some profit doing it that way but hey, it's not always about the money...right?
I don't see anything wrong with this if we assume the intent of the program was to insure that working electricians are experienced and have passed qualifying exams.(as opposed to being another way for govt. to exert control over us while taking our money)

#164802 - 06/11/07 06:23 PM Re: certification [Re: ChicoC10]  
e57  Offline
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
Originally Posted by ChicoC10
I don't see anything wrong with this if we assume the intent of the program was to insure that working electricians are experienced and have passed qualifying exams.(as opposed to being another way for govt. to exert control over us while taking our money)

IMPO it was to exclude some from working on particular projects, for particular prevailing wage clients. Oh, and take your money too in the process. But then again, (I'll speak for myself...) I am a bit jaded...

jmt, I will also ditto and vouch for electrure's advice on the topic. And add that it is not too late to apply for and take the test for General Journeyman IMO. Yes while the deadline to 'be certified' on the latest of its bazillion enforcement dates was 2006, (excuse me - but SO WHAT?!?) if you feel you qualify to take the C-10, then you should also be qualified to apply for and and take the General Certification test - if they deny you in any way - MAKE A FEDERAL CASE OUT OF IT! (Literally!) The DAS did not even send a letter to C-10's until well after the deadline, and botched this thing either out of complete ignorance or malace IMO. The DAS itself is not in compliance with their own law in a few ways, and why should they expect you to? And the use of the word "disenfranchisement" comes to mind everytime I even think about this fiasco.

(Excuse me, I need another cup of coffee...)

Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

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