ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Potseal 11
Recent Posts
Dimmable LED 2x4 lay in fixtures
by HotLine1. 04/24/17 05:43 PM
Old decora style outlets
by Lostazhell. 04/22/17 07:59 PM
Permit Snafus...AHJs and Contractors Jump in
by gfretwell. 04/22/17 01:11 PM
How do you find a good employee?
by HotLine1. 04/22/17 10:44 AM
Electrode boilers question
by SteveFehr. 04/21/17 08:32 AM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
234,700 Are you busy
169,438 Re: Forum
162,751 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 65 guests, and 9 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#163473 - 05/08/07 07:32 PM do breakers count electrons?  
trekkie76  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 220
baileyville, maine, usa
I am not sure if this a silly question, but I read a grounding book today that was talking about breakers. The book stated that the breaker remembers what amp rating it has, and that it counts the electrons, and if more pass the breaker then is supposed to, it trips.
I was under the impression that a breaker worked on ambient temperature componsated bi-metal strip, and it was the heat generated by the amps flowing beyond the rating that cuased it to trip. I would dismiss it as ludicrous, but it was in a well respected electrical series. Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks, Gary


Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#163478 - 05/08/07 08:40 PM Re: do breakers count electrons? [Re: trekkie76]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,809
Brick, NJ USA
Gary:
A silly question...no.
I heard of thermal magnetic CB's, and I know there are some 'smart' cb's (SQ-D for one), but I know of none that have electron counting capability.

Perhaps...this thread will evolve.
John


John

#163479 - 05/08/07 08:49 PM Re: do breakers count electrons? [Re: trekkie76]  
RobbieD  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 231
Canada
I installed a breaker today that is good for 9.363e19 electrons but the code only allows me to load that breaker to 7.4904e19 electrons.


#163482 - 05/08/07 09:14 PM Re: do breakers count electrons? [Re: RobbieD]  
macmikeman  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 717
Honolulu, Hawaii
As of this point today, May 8th 2007, it is still electron theory. Most scientists are fairly certain of the structure of atoms, and of course the theory holds up quite well for us electricians, and electricity seems to work within the bounds of the theory, but it is still theory, until we can slow one down to have a good look at it, if we could see stuff that small.


#163483 - 05/08/07 09:31 PM Re: do breakers count electrons? [Re: macmikeman]  
NJwirenut  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 806
Bergen County, NJ
Robbie:

I hope those figures are electrons PER SECOND?

smile


#163484 - 05/08/07 10:23 PM Re: do breakers count electrons? [Re: NJwirenut]  
RobbieD  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 231
Canada
Yeah, lol. Per second sorry I forgot to put that, lol.

Now about that book, is it a green one that has IEEE on it? I remember looking at that book once and it was all formulas, electrons, etc. Very confusing.

Breakers are rated in amps, which are a certain number of electrons per second. Breakers don't count the amps (or electrons that make the amps) like 1 - 2 - 3 - 4...etc. They count them in the manner of a reaction. They react to them, either by effecting the bi-metalic strip or by electro magnets, which trip the breaker at the desired setting, just like you said.

So just think of it as a reaction, not counting.

I'm not a scientist or anything but thats how I look at it. Hope it helps!

Try asking Scott to explain it down in the electrical theory section. He knows his stuff and he would give you the best desciption for sure.


#163485 - 05/08/07 10:52 PM Re: do breakers count electrons? [Re: RobbieD]  
JoeTestingEngr  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 782
Chicago, Il.
Since the heating effect can cause a trip, the breakers are really counting calories. This is especially true for the slim breakers.
Joe


#163496 - 05/09/07 01:49 AM Re: do breakers count electrons? [Re: JoeTestingEngr]  
mxslick  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 803
Atomic City, ID USA
Originally Posted by JoeTestingEngr
Since the heating effect can cause a trip, the breakers are really counting calories. This is especially true for the slim breakers.
Joe


ROFL!!!


Stupid should be painful.

#163499 - 05/09/07 02:18 AM Re: do breakers count electrons? [Re: mxslick]  
Alan Belson  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,803
Mayenne N. France
Quote
Now about that book, is it a green one that has IEEE on it? I remember looking at that book once and it was all formulas...

LOL!


Last edited by Alan Belson; 05/09/07 02:19 AM. Reason: mistake

Wood work but can't!

#163516 - 05/09/07 12:33 PM Re: do breakers count electrons? [Re: Alan Belson]  
mikesh  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 613
Victoria, BC, Canada
Boy this is rich. In 28 years i have never considered this but Yes breakers do react to electron flow at a specific rate and react to the calories produced by the friction of the electrons through the bi metal strip. This is why my eyes glazed over in physics class. I got A+ avg in Electrical theory in High school but passed physics at the gift of the teacher. I almost failed physics electrical theory. Good question for a physicist.


Page 1 of 2 1 2

Member Spotlight
Potseal
Potseal
Saskatchewan
Posts: 219
Joined: February 2013
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.018s Queries: 16 (0.005s) Memory: 0.8192 MB (Peak: 1.0002 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-04-26 02:18:09 UTC