ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Potseal 11
Recent Posts
Permit Snafus...AHJs and Contractors Jump in
by sparky. 04/28/17 08:11 PM
Electrode boilers question
by annemarie1. 04/27/17 01:40 PM
Why cables look like they do
by LongRunner. 04/26/17 09:36 AM
Dimmable LED 2x4 lay in fixtures
by HotLine1. 04/24/17 05:43 PM
Old decora style outlets
by Lostazhell. 04/22/17 07:59 PM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
234,898 Are you busy
169,704 Re: Forum
162,928 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 60 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#161948 - 04/10/07 03:25 PM Screened in porch receptacles  
sparkync  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 817
NC
I have a job where the outside deck in being closed in as a screened porch. I will be adding 2 receptacles on the existing outside wall of the house(brick)away from the screened area. This deck is about 10 ft. off the ground. There is no entry way from the ground to this deck. There is a solid shingled roof over this area also. Is GFI protection still required on these outlets? Thanks Steve...

Last edited by sparkync; 04/10/07 03:30 PM.

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#161952 - 04/10/07 04:52 PM Re: Screened in porch receptacles [Re: sparkync]  
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
Depending on the AHJ's definition of "Outdoors" you may or may not need GFCI protection. IMHO if it is elevated and not accessible from grade, meaning you can't stand on the ground and reach the receptacle as you discribed I would not expect to see GFCI protection as a requirement. I would say tho that if it were my own home and I planed on using this receptacle for use with a hand held piece of equipment on the ground I'd pop for the GFCI.


George Little

#161962 - 04/10/07 08:49 PM Re: Screened in porch receptacles [Re: George Little]  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
While I'd hate to have to defend my position in court, I'd say "GFCI's needed."

Looking at other 'sort of damp' places, such as kitchens, garages, and basements, we see a pattern of GFCI's being called for. I'd extend this logic to the porch. At $10 each, it's not a cost to sweat about.

I would, however, see no need for outdoor covers ... and 'bubble' covers would be plain silly.


#161966 - 04/10/07 10:19 PM Re: Screened in porch receptacles [Re: renosteinke]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,069
Estero,Fl,usa
406.8(A) seems to say you need a snap cover but not a bubble.
That would also get a GFCI in most places around here but it is certainly a judgement call by the AHJ. I think it is "outside" but your mileage may vary if you don't live in a place where it can rain sideways on any summer day.


Greg Fretwell

#161968 - 04/10/07 10:26 PM Re: Screened in porch receptacles [Re: renosteinke]  
HLCbuild  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 209
Herndon,Va USA
The Code used to be more clear on this issue. It used to talk about direct access to grade, but now it just says "outdoors" so I'd say since outdoors is not listed in the definitions, I'd agree with George that it would be the inspector's call. Our Chief Inspector has a saying for this: "it's a dirty business"!


#161972 - 04/11/07 06:41 AM Re: Screened in porch receptacles [Re: HLCbuild]  
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
After thinking about this for a coupla days and reading what others are saying I have modified my thinking and thought about the fact that while the receptacle might not be in a wet location and not be subject to water or driving rain, due to the location on the screened in porch, there is still a very good posibility that the floor would be wet and possibly provide a path to ground. The receptacle is certianly outdoors because if it were indoors we'd need more than just the receptacles on the house wall. Assuming that, I have taken a definite stand for needing GFCI protection and would write it.


George Little

#161986 - 04/11/07 11:10 AM Re: Screened in porch receptacles [Re: George Little]  
venture  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 38
San Diego Ca USA
I added a screen porch to a cabin I lived in. It had the laundry hook up and I had a freezer so I wired it like a room addition. When I questioned the inspector he said how I wired it decided whether it was outdoors or not. If I had had put in 2 recp. on the house it was outside and needed a GFCI. I wired it like a room so he called it a room. Rod


#161990 - 04/11/07 11:59 AM Re: Screened in porch receptacles [Re: venture]  
mikesh  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 613
Victoria, BC, Canada
Here is a Canadian Electrical code answer. If the open deck, balcony or porch is above 2.5 meters or 8 feet then no GFCI protection is required. From a more pragmatic perspective if there is no other outlets available from grade and the porch is accessible from grade i might be inclined to ask for a GFCI regardless of the above rule. We don't require GFCI protection on balconies exposed to the elements above 8 feet and frankly we are not shocking people on their decks regardless of the weather. I am surprised at the number of GFCI protected receptacles required by the NEC and in some circumstances the lack of required protection required by the CEC. I guess Canadians don't get electrocuted as often as US citizens?


#161991 - 04/11/07 12:26 PM Re: Screened in porch receptacles [Re: mikesh]  
ccdave  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 59
culver city,calif. usa
Upstairs balconies are required to have gfci protection here, covered or not


#161993 - 04/11/07 12:49 PM Re: Screened in porch receptacles [Re: ccdave]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,069
Estero,Fl,usa
Canadians are probably just less reckless than Americans. We do tend to do dangerous things that other people never thought of. The X games were invented here along with the demolition derby, skydiving, kite surfing and lawn darts.


Greg Fretwell

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Member Spotlight
waymag
waymag
dallas, texas, USA
Posts: 67
Joined: January 2002
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.016s Queries: 16 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8199 MB (Peak: 1.0015 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-04-29 01:47:47 UTC