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#159599 - 01/08/05 07:48 PM More than 2 90's?  
e57  Offline
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
Often, if we do not do the total install, we will get the winning bid for Electrical, which will often include some conduit for Tel/Data. So many of them have what I think is a far fetched interpitation of some of the telecom standards of pulling in conduit. i.e. The 2 90 rule... they wont pull in more than 180 degrees of bend, reguardless of fill.

So yesterday the Cablers show up, and I have to tell them the Arch would not allow extra pull boxes in some of the closed walls, and some of them have 3 90's His reply was, "We won't pull it! It damages the cable. And it's code." My reply, "What Code, I challenge you to find one." He only has 3 cat 5e cables in these 3/4" conduits, so I say, "Try some lube." His reply, "Oh, that damages the cable jackets too."

I have an idea where this comes from, an outdated TIA 568 standard (Not a Code) that was a little far fetched, and didn't differentiate fiber optic from copper cabling.

Just wondering if anyone had any thoughts on this?

Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

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#159600 - 01/08/05 10:15 PM Re: More than 2 90's?  
electure  Offline

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,260
Fullerton, CA USA
I'm not at all familiar with the standards, but can tell you that the 180° "dream world" predates the use of fiber optics.
I can remember hearing about it in '70.

#159601 - 01/08/05 10:24 PM Re: More than 2 90's?  
e57  Offline
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
Here I was thinking it was new.... I was born in '70! [Linked Image]

Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

#159602 - 01/11/05 12:31 AM Re: More than 2 90's?  
golf junkie  Offline
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 507
York, NE
I have seen this often in specs. but I've never seen anyone get bent about it.

#159603 - 01/11/05 04:43 PM Re: More than 2 90's?  
dstanford  Offline
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 23
Asheville NC USA
well i would rather not have alot of J-Boxes
in my big backbone and interduct pulls
you can always put another wrap on the tugger and use Lots of Lube.
sounds like pure lazyness to me

#159604 - 01/11/05 10:34 PM Re: More than 2 90's?  
golf junkie  Offline
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 507
York, NE
I would be interested to hear if anyone has actually ever damaged a cat 5 cable due to excess pull strain and under what conditions that occurred?

#159605 - 01/11/05 11:07 PM Re: More than 2 90's?  
SolarPowered  Offline
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 625
Palo Alto, CA, USA
Would you even know if you'd damaged it? You'd probably have to ping it out with a TDR to find out. With the error-recovery mechanisms built into comm protocols, the user likely isn't going to realize what's going on, either--he'll just have slower network performance than he would have had if there was no damage.

#159606 - 01/12/05 12:40 AM Re: More than 2 90's?  
e57  Offline
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
Graphic TDR it would still be realy difficult to tell I think, unless you printed out each pair before you pulled as a refferance. I'm sure someone with too much time on thier hands can cut to length test and install to check it again, like in some testing lab. However I can say that most Certification meters will test exactly the same before and after. (With the same termination.)

With pulling tension of 25lbs max, you could bundle a dozen or so and swing like Tarzan..... Kidding [Linked Image]

Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

#159607 - 01/12/05 11:24 AM Re: More than 2 90's?  
Radar  Offline
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 349
Los Angeles, CA
Here at the large public agency I work for in the Los Angeles area, when we award contracts for the installation of conduit to be used for data lines, we specify no more than 2-90's between openings. Nothing to do with code. Our IT techs who pull in the cabling later (fiber or cat-5) don't care if the openings are pull boxes or condulets, they just want easy pulling. Personally I don't think they have a tugger available, and wouldn't know how to use one (they aren't wiremen).


There are 10 types of people. Those who know binary, and those who don't.

#159608 - 01/12/05 12:59 PM Re: More than 2 90's?  
hbiss  Offline
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 886
Hawthorne, NY USA
Don't think you would want to use a tugger with those cables.

Personally I think the "2 90" requirement is silly. I can't imagine how you could comply in many situations. No reason that you can't upsize the conduit and use a lubricant if necessary. Never heard of a lubricant damaging a cable by the way.

Maybe you need to rethink allowing IT techs with no experience doing this type of work.


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