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#156730 - 06/16/05 12:14 PM Charge For Helpers  
Wireless  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 73
Los Angeles CA USA
I was wondering how you charge for a apprentice? I am doing a job T&M. I was wondering if you charge full price for them or lower rate?


Business, Office, Estimating, Legal:

#156731 - 06/16/05 02:06 PM Re: Charge For Helpers  
growler  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 65
Marietta, Ga. 30060
People will not normally pay the same for an apprentice as an electrician. However in most states the job description is determined by the owner (boss). So they get a journeyman with 2 years experience rather than an apprentice with 2 years experience.
If the customer knows that some of your people are lacking experience I would set a lower price. You normally end up making the same because you don't pay as much.


#156732 - 06/16/05 07:18 PM Re: Charge For Helpers  
Active 1  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 687
Grayslake IL, USA
That was allways my faverate customer insult to another JW in the company that did not pull his weight. "I'm not going to pay your apprentace that much". Only he was not an apprentace.

As far as what to charge. I think it gos back to the more detailed break down of the bill you provide the more the customer has to complain about. I realize some are required to seperate materials and labor. Also a few jobs are better just T&M. Otherwise I would give them a total number and that's it.

You could also play with the numbers and call yourself a superviser (charging more) and less for the apprentace.

If the JW & the apprentace are allways working as a pair you could charge one amount per hr for both.

I don't know if I would charge too much less for an apprentace. Depending on the work it could take them 3 times as long, they have to be trained, they need supervision, they are more likely to be hurt or break something. The only advantages to them are they may be better for the grunt work & you can pay them less. If you charge less then what is the advantage of having one?

I wish there was some goverment insentive to hire & train new guys.

Tom


#156733 - 06/16/05 09:07 PM Re: Charge For Helpers  
Wireless  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 73
Los Angeles CA USA
The problem is I made up with the customer X amount per hour per man. Now he's telling me I'm not paying for a helper/apprentice the same amount. I feel I should charge the full amount because without him everything takes twice as long he ends up saving.


#156734 - 06/16/05 09:18 PM Re: Charge For Helpers  
LK  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
"I wish there was some goverment insentive to hire & train new guys"

Tom,

The labor department has been offering an incentive for the last 20 years, with all their apprentice programs.

Every employee we have, has been thru the Labor Department program.

The charge out rate is just a little less, you have all the employment expenses, and overhead as you would with a J man, only the wages differ, and that depends what year they are in, the first year, training reduces the cost benifit to the company, the second, third, and forth year, their wages increase, so return on investment is almost flat.



[This message has been edited by LK (edited 06-16-2005).]


#156735 - 06/16/05 10:58 PM Re: Charge For Helpers  
growler  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 65
Marietta, Ga. 30060
Wireless...X amount per hr. per man. That's not promising 2 jw's or masters. If the contract says 2 men and you furnished 2 men, that's it. He agreed to the price.
Before I was speaking of the negotiation phase. It's never a good idea to let people know that your charging $50 an hr. for a green helper that your paying $8.
Would you pay $75 pr. hr. for someone to train to work on your truck. You do but they don't tell you about it. They list a book rate of 2.5 hrs. to change radiator. On this T&M job, how much of a mark up are you getting on materials? Most customers don't want to pay a mark up but they still want a warranty. I don't warranty anything I don't supply. I have never had a bad box, wire, staple. If a customer wants to supply fixtures, switches, receptacles, panel & breakers, it's fine with me but they had better read the contract.
If the bill you submitted is anything close to reasonable, it's payment time.
I have seen contractor's send people out to " hang out " at a job site for a few weeks. That doesn't look well in court. There are no well defined parameters for pricing, unless it's an obvious gouge.


#156736 - 06/17/05 02:09 AM Re: Charge For Helpers  
Wireless  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 73
Los Angeles CA USA
The problem is I made up with the customer X amount per hour per man. Now he's telling me I'm not paying for a helper/apprentice the same amount. I feel I should charge the full amount because without him everything takes twice as long he ends up saving.


#156737 - 06/17/05 08:12 AM Re: Charge For Helpers  
Jps1006  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 615
Northern IL
A helper doesn't necessarily cut the time in half. You can't say an apprentice is going to do something as quickly or efficiently as a Jman. How did this customer discover he wasn't a Jman? was it that obvious watching him work?

Now it all depends on the worker. I have had helpers 2-3 years into the trade that I can easily charge full price. If the lack of experience doesn't hinder speed or efficency, then close to full price (or maybe full price) is fair.


#156738 - 06/18/05 10:37 AM Re: Charge For Helpers  
Alan Belson  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,803
Mayenne N. France
Mark 12,2. Parable of the grape pickers.
Bill him what you quoted- if he wants to change the contract, add $100 to do so.
Alan


Wood work but can't!

#156739 - 12/04/05 09:50 AM Re: Charge For Helpers  
jr4wire  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 12
MA, Usa
I charge a "team hour" for service work. If it is a job that I have estimated and given a price on, then I have estimated all work done by a journeyman( his time and his rate). It has worked out for me. I've found that you can't possibly prepare for every scenario so I limit my variables. I really hate office work.

Jim


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