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Oversize Plates #153667
10/30/03 07:10 AM
10/30/03 07:10 AM
electure  Offline
OP
Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,264
Fullerton, CA USA
Per NEC 314.21Repairing Plaster and Drywall or Plasterboard.
Plaster, drywall, or plasterboard surfaces that are broken or incomplete shall be repaired so there will be no gaps or spaces greater than 3mm (1/8") at the edge of the box or fitting.

OK, then, does anyone ever enforce this? There are plates made with the express purpose of covering oversize cuts. (Ironically, I've even seen them advertized as such in the IAEI magazine).
What do you think?...S

Building Codes & Related References
Re: Oversize Plates #153668
10/30/03 09:06 AM
10/30/03 09:06 AM
R
Ryan_J  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,374
West Jordan, Utah, USA
I am usually more concerned about it in a rated wall than an average installation. Like you said, the over-sized plates will cover it before I will see it.


Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City
Re: Oversize Plates #153669
10/30/03 09:56 AM
10/30/03 09:56 AM
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,890
NY, USA
I always thought the only way the use of these could be justified is to cover up some irregularity in the wall finish (ie Paint, Wallpaper), not oversized holes.

What did the ad in the Magazine say?

Bill

Re: Oversize Plates #153670
10/30/03 10:47 AM
10/30/03 10:47 AM
J
Jim M  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 457
Chestertown, MD, USA
Scott,

I have yet to see an inspector pull off more than a panel cover. So it seems that what doesn't get seen will get passed.

Should my inspection fail for work that I didn't do, i.e. the sheetrock? Who should fix those gaps?

Re: Oversize Plates #153671
10/30/03 12:04 PM
10/30/03 12:04 PM
T
txsparky  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 552
Magnolia,.Texas U.S.A.
I agree with Bill's perspective as to the use of these.There is no excuse for a carpenter or drywall hanger to leave an oversized hole around the box for the electrician to have to deal with.. I never hesitate to call this to their attention, and the attention of their superiors if need be. Sometimes it ruffles their feathers, but who cares. Occasionally I have had to quote NEC 314.21 to them. Then I let them know that the oversized holes are to be repaired or I don't trim out !! No exceptions.


Donnie
Re: Oversize Plates #153672
10/30/03 12:47 PM
10/30/03 12:47 PM
R
Roger  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,716
N.C.
I have worked with an engineer who spec medium size plates for all struck block jobs. This makes good sense do to the fact even the best masons can't make all cuts that tight.

As far as 314.21, I brought this up in the BC area questioning why this is not in 314.20. It seems we could toss out 314.21 if it were.

The UL orange book states any box in a rated wall will not have more than an 1/8" gap therfore overridding the NEC laxness. (is that a word [Linked Image])

Roger

Re: Oversize Plates #153673
10/30/03 01:36 PM
10/30/03 01:36 PM
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,890
NY, USA
Is the space around th ebox addressed in the Building Code somewhere?
Or is it only found in the Electrical Code?

It seems to me it should be in both places, especially if they want it to be enforced.

Bill

Re: Oversize Plates #153674
10/30/03 02:34 PM
10/30/03 02:34 PM
T
txsparky  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 552
Magnolia,.Texas U.S.A.
Quote
even the best masons can't make all cuts that tight.

No, but they can fill the gaps with mortar,just as a sheetrock finisher can fill the gaps with tape and mud. [Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by txsparky (edited 10-30-2003).]


Donnie
Re: Oversize Plates #153675
10/30/03 05:22 PM
10/30/03 05:22 PM
P
pwood  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 67
castella,calif usa
bill,
section 709.6 calif.bldb. code(1997 ubc)addresses the firestopping methods.in concrete walls ;concrete,grout,or mortar the full thickness of the wall or the thickness required to maintain the rating is o.k.fire caulking or other listed systems are acceptable in other types of walls.
the material used to fill the annular space shall prevent the passage of flame and hot gases sufficient to ignite cotton waste when subjected to ubc standard 7-1 time temperature fire conditions under a minimum positive pressure differential of 0.01inch of water column(2.5pa)at the location of the penetration for the time period equivelent to the fire rating of the construction penetrated.that's the technical explanation!

Re: Oversize Plates #153676
10/30/03 05:28 PM
10/30/03 05:28 PM
R
Roger  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,716
N.C.
Donnie, the gaps aren't a code issue in CMU construction. Set back is. The plates are only for a clean finish on the exposed block.

The masons always mud in behind the boxes and point them up anyways.

Roger

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