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#149175 - 08/08/03 11:35 AM Two Person Rule When Working on Energized Systems  
Joe Tedesco  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
I am looking for any specific OSHA or other reference in any other code or document related to electrical saftey concerning the requirement that calls for at least two qualified persons when working on energized electrical systems.

Any help will be appreciated.


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

Arc Flash PPE Clothing, LOTO & Insulated Tools

#149176 - 08/08/03 10:25 PM Re: Two Person Rule When Working on Energized Systems  
Trumpy  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,217
SI,New Zealand
Gidday Joe,
Sorry that I can't actually give any Code references or the like.
But this system, called a Second Competent Person system was introduced over here in the late 90's, which pertains to ANY work on live switchboards and Distribution Panels.
This was an Electrical Industry initiative to make live work safer, it's not even written into law here, although it SHOULD be!.
The extra person, just keeping an eye on you and you keeping in constant communication with them, makes it a lot easier, should something go wrong, as can happen.
Is this sort of thing not covered in the OSHA legislation?.
I never do live work alone, neither should anyone else!!. [Linked Image]


Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

#149177 - 08/08/03 11:50 PM Re: Two Person Rule When Working on Energized Systems  
Bjarney  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,527
West-Southern Inner-Northeast ...
This response doesn’t directly address your question, Joe, but it partially applicable and worth relating.

I have a very talented associate that conducts some pretty intensive in-house electrical-safety programs, primarily for US Department of Energy Facilities. The course has evolved over about 15 years, and is primarily structured around some very serious electrical accidents that have occurred in those opertions. The coursework is coincident with OSHA 29CFR1910.269 rules for utility workers—for many DOE facilities handle power transmsission and distribution in the 2-345kV range. Richard Harris, the instructor, goes into significant detail...

  • ONE-HUNDRED PERCENT {100%} SAFETY RULE: NO Switching, isolating, detecting of energized circuits, applying personnel safety grounds, or other related work shall be performed unless two (2) qualified, experienced individuals are in 100% agreement of the work the that is to be performed and the sequence in which it is to be done. If there is NOT 100% AGREEMENT DO NOT PERFORM ANY WORK, but consult a third +-qualified, experienced individual. Do not perform any work until all three (3) individuals are in 100% agreement. If there is not agreement at this point, continue the process until there is 100% agreement between the parties involved.

    DO NOT WORK ALONE in HAZARDOUS CONDITIONS or on HIGH-ENERGY CIRCUITS!





[This message has been edited by Bjarney (edited 08-09-2003).]


#149178 - 08/09/03 06:35 AM Re: Two Person Rule When Working on Energized Systems  
Joe Tedesco  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
Thanks to Trumpy and Bj...

This story is ongoing ... your comments are well taken!!

NIOSH has a CD that includes many case studies of accidents related to electricity and I believe there is a CD available showing Forensic Investigations of electrical accidents. I have been unable to locate it though?


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

#149179 - 08/09/03 06:38 AM Re: Two Person Rule When Working on Energized Systems  
Trumpy  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,217
SI,New Zealand
Joe,
Just a wee question.
What sort of work does this pertain to?.
Are we talking Industrial or Commercial panels, Domestic installations?.
I realise that anything more than single phase has it's own dangers.


Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

#149180 - 08/09/03 06:50 AM Re: Two Person Rule When Working on Energized Systems  
Joe Tedesco  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
Nothing in particular, but industrial and commercial would be where the voltages could vary. How do you feel about the following situation?

[Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 08-09-2003).]


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

#149181 - 08/09/03 09:35 AM Re: Two Person Rule When Working on Energized Systems  
Bjarney  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,527
West-Southern Inner-Northeast ...
Joe, on the panelboard pic, the handy back-o'-the-deadfront muffin cooling fan is missing—the one that fits in the bottom eight circuit-breaker pole spaces. {That fan is for loading a 225-amp panelboard to 275 amperes during summers.} ;-) ;-) ;-) {Sorry.}


#149182 - 08/09/03 10:34 PM Re: Two Person Rule When Working on Energized Systems  
ThinkGood  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,081
Milwaukee, WI
Here is the OSHA Standard: http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owa...ANDARDS&p_i d=9868#1910.269(l)(1)(i)

Here are some OSHA interpretations: http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRE TATIONS&p_id=23893 .

It seems that this is for systems over 600V. Does such a standard exist for "low" voltage?

[This message has been edited by ThinkGood (edited 08-09-2003).]


#149183 - 08/11/03 02:21 AM Re: Two Person Rule When Working on Energized Systems  
Trumpy  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,217
SI,New Zealand
Joe,
Just seeing a panel like that one, makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end.
For a start, there is a lot of Earthed Metal in the surrounds of the panel that could cause an Arc Fault by workers that are not keeping a good eye on what they are doing.
Having said that, as well as having a Second Competent Person with you when working on a panel like this, I would move that Insulating Cover-up gear(sheets) be used to minimise the chances of contact with other parts within the panel, that are un-related to the task at hand.
I realise that this may sound a trifle "wimpy", but what's wimpy about spending a few months in Hospital, because you couldn't even cover your own b-side during one of these procedures.
TGood,
Those OSHA links that you provided would be a very good foundation to start off a "Low Voltage" Live work procedure Standard.
There is, in my opinion, little difference in the two Voltage scenarios, but in some cases, it's the Arc Flash ferocity that makes the difference.
You should take equal care, no matter wether it's a 120V lighting circuit or a 12.4kV feeder cable


Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

#149184 - 08/16/03 04:16 AM Re: Two Person Rule When Working on Energized Systems  
Trumpy  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,217
SI,New Zealand
Joe,
That rule should be "2 persons + 1 Fire Extinguisher".


Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

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