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#14775 - 10/01/02 11:03 PM 1999 Code GFCI's in Lunchroom???  
watthead  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 172
South Carolina
Was told by the Authority Having Jurisdiction today that GFCI's were required in a manufacturing facilities lunch room within 6 feet of sink. I thought this was a dwelling only rule. Have I been wrong all this time? When I asked for the article I was reffered to 90-4.


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#14776 - 10/02/02 12:05 AM Re: 1999 Code GFCI's in Lunchroom???  
Nick  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 599
Riverside, CA
You are correct. See 210-8(b. Just another case of an inspector enforcing his rules and falling back on 90-4. How he can "interpret" a lunch room sink as having anything to do with
(1)bathrooms , or
(2)rooftops
is beyond me.


#14777 - 10/02/02 08:14 AM Re: 1999 Code GFCI's in Lunchroom???  
Joe Tedesco  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
210.8(B)(3) in the 2002 NEC requires all 15- and 20-ampere, 125-volt receptacles in nondwelling-type kitchens to be GFCI protected.

We are still faced with the question:

"What is a kitchen?"

Did the AHJ clarify this for you, and are you using the new 2002 code?


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

#14778 - 10/02/02 12:36 PM Re: 1999 Code GFCI's in Lunchroom???  
watthead  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 172
South Carolina
Sorry for not originally posting in the NEC area. This county is still under the 1999 code until January 1 2003. After borrowing my GFCI tester to check the outlets, I mentioned to him that the receptacles in question did not require GFCI protection. My statement was met with a GFCI's are required by code anywhere within 6 feet of a sink. When I inquired as to the article he was reffering to He said 90-4. At which time I said oh yea now I remember that the word dwelling does'nt preceed the requirements for GFCI's at sinks. I could tell that I was not going to win the battle, so I stuck to my long held position of refusing to be drawn into a battle of wits with an unarmed man. Also the better part of valor or common sense wouldn't let me rub his nose in it, as he is still the AHJ. He passed the job without requiring the GFCI's, but the sad part is he still thinks they are a NEC requirement in this location.


#14779 - 10/02/02 02:31 PM Re: 1999 Code GFCI's in Lunchroom???  
Electricmanscott  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
If he thinks they are a requirement and he passed you without requiring them I would have to say he is not much of an inspector. 1999 NEC 210-8 (b) Other than dwelling units. Bathrooms and rooftops. Is the lunch room in either of these locations? 90-4 DOES NOT give permision to the AHJ to change the code as written, the allowance is for intrpretation. There is a big difference between those two. 2002 Does require them in kitchens but as has been stated when does a lunchroom become a kitchen. I would argue there must be a range or stove of some type. Not portable appliances like a toaster oven or microwave as these could be used in any room.


#14780 - 10/02/02 03:02 PM Re: 1999 Code GFCI's in Lunchroom???  
SJT  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 241
PATCHOGUE, N.Y.
As far as I know, any 110v receptacle located within 6' of any sink, no matter where it's location in any room may be, has to be GFCI protected. If there is a sink you have to think GFCI. After all, it's a safety thing and there should'nt be any doubt about the GFCI.
Have a nice day


#14781 - 10/02/02 03:26 PM Re: 1999 Code GFCI's in Lunchroom???  
watthead  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 172
South Carolina
SJT are you an inspector too? I agree that safety and best design would provide the GFCI protection, but where do you and the AHJ read in the 1999 NEC that they are required. I have studied the code in an attempt to make code compliant installations, and I have missed the particular article that is being referenced.
What is the number?????????????????


#14782 - 10/03/02 09:25 AM Re: 1999 Code GFCI's in Lunchroom???  
SJT  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 241
PATCHOGUE, N.Y.
I'm sure it's not a big job to put the GFCI in.
I understand the confusion here, but the AHJ does call the shot. I my self am not an inspector but am licensed and certified with 2 out of 3 exams from the IAEI. I hope to take the exam on 1 and 2 family dwellings soon. It will certify me as an inspector, but I'll be doing it for my own satisfaction and concern for the trade.
Have a great day


#14783 - 10/03/02 12:23 PM Re: 1999 Code GFCI's in Lunchroom???  
sparky66wv  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
West Virginia
Was the "6' GFCI rule" in the code at one time?

That would be my guess, maybe in the '90 or '93?

That's about the timeperiod I had learned that rule, but I wasn't too serious about code then, either.

I'm wondering if it's another one of those "assumed rules" or if it actually existed at one time, to be replaced with the verbage that requires GFCI for the entire countertop and room (residential kitchens and baths).

Anyone know?

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 10-03-2002).]


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI

#14784 - 10/03/02 04:34 PM Re: 1999 Code GFCI's in Lunchroom???  
Electricmanscott  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
I recall that it was within six feet of a sink the kitchen but that's about it. SJT I take great exception to you saying that the AHJ calls the shots. You and I would certainly not get along on the job. It is the NEC that calls the shots where I work.


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