ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
Air Compressor feeder conductor sizing
by Potseal. 01/15/18 09:08 PM
VDE 0100 to introduce AFCIs
by LongRunner. 01/15/18 11:38 AM
Under carpet cable?
by HotLine1. 01/15/18 09:57 AM
Any New Years Resolutions?
by Bill Addiss. 01/13/18 10:21 AM
diazed fuses
by RODALCO. 01/13/18 07:58 AM
New in the Gallery:
Housebilding DIY wiring
SE cable question
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 6 guests, and 7 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Structural metal member #14351
09/19/02 05:15 PM
09/19/02 05:15 PM
F
Frank Cinker  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 311
Pennsylvania
Who determines if a structual metal member in an existing building is "effectively grounded"? (NEC 250.52(A)(2)
Is there a particular test performed to decide?

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: Structural metal member #14352
09/19/02 05:46 PM
09/19/02 05:46 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,916
Brick, NJ USA
Frank:
I guess it depends on who is asking, or requesting the bonding info.
The electrical contractor has the NEC responsibility in new construction, and major renovation work here. THe iron workers make-up "tight" connections, and we bond to the main beams usually. If the client, architect, engineer, etc. specs or requests, we install jumpers as specified.

John


John
Re: Structural metal member #14353
09/20/02 05:22 AM
09/20/02 05:22 AM
F
Frank Cinker  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 311
Pennsylvania
HotLine1-

Typically, where are the jumpers normally installed?

Re: Structural metal member #14354
09/20/02 06:12 AM
09/20/02 06:12 AM
G
George Corron  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 717
Lorton, Va USA
Frank,
You can get IAEI Soares book on grounding for a very thorough explanation. If the steel is attached to bolts, in concrete, underground, it is basically considered grounded. It can get more complicated and I suggest a good read of Soares.

All steel needs to be bonded to the neutral though, don't forget that.

jumpers do not need to be attached for continuity, only welded or bolted together, and that usually is accomplished by the steel guys.

Re: Structural metal member #14355
09/20/02 06:23 AM
09/20/02 06:23 AM
F
Frank Cinker  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 311
Pennsylvania
Thank you for responses. I'm meeting with an Electrical Engineer at job site this morning. Briefly, a separtely derived system is going to be installed on the eighth floor of our City Hall Building for County wide Court system. It is going to provide power for a computer room.
Running a grounding electrode conductor to the water meter in the basement is one option. Of course a ground rod must be driven. The other option is to use the structural building steel which does not require a driven ground rod.

Frank

Re: Structural metal member #14356
09/20/02 07:37 AM
09/20/02 07:37 AM
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,888
NY, USA
Frank,

250.30(A)(4) specifies that it shall be the nearest of the two (eff. grounded structural steel or water pipe) that is used.

The way I read it a rod is not required either way if the steel or water pipe is available/used per 250.30(A)(4)(3)

Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 09-20-2002).]

Re: Structural metal member #14357
09/20/02 01:55 PM
09/20/02 01:55 PM
F
Frank Cinker  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 311
Pennsylvania
Bill-

The Electrical Engineer deemed the structural metal not effecively grounded. He wants to use the metal water pipe. Wouldn't 250.53(D)(2) apply. ie. Supplemental electrode required, or doesn't that apply for separately derived systems?

Frank

Re: Structural metal member #14358
09/20/02 02:33 PM
09/20/02 02:33 PM
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,888
NY, USA
Frank,

I read it that the rod is not required in this case (per 250.30(A)(4)(3)
) if you use the steel or the water pipe within 5 ft of point of entrance ro the Building. Does anyone else agree?

Bill

Re: Structural metal member #14359
09/20/02 03:03 PM
09/20/02 03:03 PM
T
TE  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 36
USA
dis

Re: Structural metal member #14360
09/21/02 06:54 AM
09/21/02 06:54 AM
F
Frank Cinker  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 311
Pennsylvania
Bill-

I have to continue to research this. I guess the basic question is: When using a metal water pipe for a grounding electrode for all Code applications, is a supplemental electrode required?

Frank

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
HotLine1
HotLine1
Brick, NJ USA
Posts: 6,916
Joined: April 2002
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
sparky 24
Admin 19
Potseal 13
Popular Topics(Views)
243,510 Are you busy
180,295 Re: Forum
170,799 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.019s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 1.0228 MB (Peak: 1.2000 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-01-16 11:43:02 UTC