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#142249 - 12/21/04 05:20 PM Part P Get-Out Clause  
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
O.K., I've found a way to be able to do any work in your home without having to comply with part P and without having to notify the local council.

The addition to the Building Regulations adding part P specifies that it applies to all low- and extra-low-voltage electrical systems.

So........

Just install a big transformer at the service entrance, then run everything around the house at, say, 625 volts to outlets.

Problem solved! [Linked Image]


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#142250 - 12/21/04 08:29 PM Re: Part P Get-Out Clause  
SimonUK  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50
Ayrshire, Scotland, UK.
Like your thinking Paul [Linked Image] [Linked Image]


#142251 - 12/22/04 03:12 AM Re: Part P Get-Out Clause  
C-H  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,497
Stockholm, Sweden
How is the limit defined? I think the LVD applies to everything below 1000VAC / 1500VDC. (So far, the ELV area (below 50V?) is also unregulated)


#142252 - 12/22/04 09:26 AM Re: Part P Get-Out Clause  
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
The LV limit for AC is now defined as 1000V between conductors, or 600V between any conductor and earth, hence my choice of 625 volts! (DC limits are 1500 and 900V.)

ELV is covered by the new part P as well. The AC limit is defined as not exceeding 50V, either between conductors or to earth.

In the actual Statutory Instrument, the DC definition of ELV is rather incomplete to my way of thinking. It just says not exceeding 120V between conductors, no mention of p.d. relative to earth.


#142253 - 12/23/04 09:25 AM Re: Part P Get-Out Clause  
Trumpy  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,211
SI,New Zealand
Look,
At the end of the day, you fella's are just going to have to swallow Part P and live with it.
As in that I'm saying we didn't like the changes we had here either, but we've learned to live with them!.
It didn't sell us down the creek, we can still make a living and a darned good one at that.
Having said that, the local Council has never had a say in any Electrical Installations here, apart from Fire Alarms.
And personally I'd say they should keep to thier mandate of rubbish collections and Storm-water disposal, that's what I pay my Rates for!. [Linked Image]


Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

#142254 - 12/23/04 03:06 PM Re: Part P Get-Out Clause  
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
Quote
At the end of the day, you fella's are just going to have to swallow Part P and live with it.

I understand what you're trying to say Mike, but the whole thing has just been a complete shambles from the beginning (like everything else this present administration has interfered with).

I've been reading through comments on the IEE Forum and from various other boards, and it seems that everybody who has asked their local council about the implementation of part P has been told, in effect, "We have no idea." Remember that this is due to become law in little over a week's time.

As you know, I'm not doing wiring work every day of the week. I certainly cannot justify the fees for joining one of the recognized schemes for self-certification. So compliance with the new law is down to notification of works to the local council. As you saw from the response I received from them a few weeks ago, they have nothing in place yet to deal with it.

Those officials who have suggested any sort of system for test and inspection in their area seem to be saying that it will be under their present scale of building inspection charges, at least to begin. I've seen charges quoted ranging from £60 up to £200 to £500 for larger projects.

I do a lot of small jobs in this area for low-income families, pensioners struggling on their meager payments, etc.

So next time I do a quick job of installing an extra socket in a kitchen for, say, an old lady in the village, am I supposed to tell her that it will be £30 for me but she'll have to hand over an extra £60 for the council inspector? [Linked Image]


#142255 - 12/25/04 08:42 AM Re: Part P Get-Out Clause  
lyledunn  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 159
N.Ireland
We dont have Part P here. According to Belfast City Council it will be on the long finger. So we have the luxury of hindsight should it become law in Northern Ireland.
Paul, I appreciate your altruistic considerations but the cost will have to be paid by the customer. At least to some extent it will be a level pitch (for those who choose to operate within the law!).


regards

lyle dunn

#142256 - 12/28/04 12:42 PM Re: Part P Get-Out Clause  
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
Quote
it will be on the long finger.

Is that an Irish expression? [Linked Image]

I guess it means N.I. is only thinking about the possibility of introducing similar rules at some unspecified point in the future ?

As for the cost having to be paid by the customer, I have to ask whether that will happen. If we try to stay within the law but the cost is going to be grossly inflated because of that, then people who might otherwise have paid to have the job done will make other arrangements, e.g.

1. Not bother at all, and just fit 4-way extension sockets to walls and drape cords everywhere.

2. Have a go themselves, even if they're not sure what they're doing (maybe not the little old lady, but some will).

3. Ask Uncle ****** or Nephew ****** to do it, because he "knows a bit about wiring."

Remind me again, part P is supposed to be about improving safety of electrical systems, right?


#142257 - 12/28/04 03:12 PM Re: Part P Get-Out Clause  
lyledunn  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 159
N.Ireland
Paul, dont know the source of "on the long finger" but you guessed correct.
I respect your views with regards to Part P. You have highlighted some of the major disadvantages. However, taken in a general sense, I think when the dust settles, Part P will be a definite improvement.


regards

lyle dunn

#142258 - 12/28/04 09:50 PM Re: Part P Get-Out Clause  
uksparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 200
UK
Quote
However, taken in a general sense, I think when the dust settles, Part P will be a definite improvement.


Possibly a slight improvement...

The only real difference that will be seen at the outset will be any building work subject to B-regs ( and thus inspection ), and possibly the sale of property.

It will not stop the "be-spurred" members of the public doing work for others, or those doing it for themselves either. How can it, unless there is some other reason for notification?

I'm with Paul on this; it will lead to an increase in Heath-Robinson circumvention without changing a damn thing. Maybe eventually we might see changes - but not for years, and certainly not whilst the likes of "Bodge-&-Quack" are selling everything neede for a complete rewire to anyone who shows them the money... [Linked Image]


If hindsight were foresight, we'd all be millionaires!

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