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Generators #140827
05/12/04 01:55 PM
05/12/04 01:55 PM
P
PaulCornwall  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 112
England
Hello fellow sparks.. long time no type..

work has gone crazy and i cant keep up..
i have a small problem if any one can help..

A small factory is installing a generator to supply there 3 phase machinery as the supply company want millions to put in 3 phase..when the genny is running it will power the lights and sockets as well via a change over switch,, my problem is the earthing,, i would myself stake the genny and bond to the earth of the building, your thoughts please.

Paul

PS .. anyone know the calculation to convert Kva to Amps

[This message has been edited by PaulCornwall (edited 05-12-2004).]

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Re: Generators #140828
05/12/04 03:00 PM
05/12/04 03:00 PM
R
Ron  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 582
White Plains, NY
Three phase system
kVA/volts/1.73=amps


Ron
Re: Generators #140829
05/12/04 04:50 PM
05/12/04 04:50 PM
P
PaulCornwall  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 112
England
Thanks for that Ron,,, would i be right in saying that a 140kva genny would be 100 amps.. {per phase of course}

Re: Generators #140830
05/13/04 06:33 PM
05/13/04 06:33 PM
P
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
140kVa / 415V / 1.73 = 195 amps.

The genset certainly needs its frame bonding to the building's earthing system. You also need to make sure that the genny's neutral is earthed, but in such a way as not to create parallel neutral paths via the earthing system.

Re: Generators #140831
05/16/04 08:14 AM
05/16/04 08:14 AM
F
FWL_Engineer  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 50
Barnet, Hertfordshire, UK
I have installed many Gen sets over the years, and they should all be bonded to the Building Earth, however it is also a good idea to stake them as well.

I agree with Paul, you need to ensure that the Neutral is not parallel grounded or there could be serious consequences.

If they are going to run their 3 phase kit from a Gen set, would it not be a wise idea to run the entire installation from it..then use the single phase mains as an emergency backup for essential services in the event of Gen set failure?

Re: Generators #140832
05/18/04 05:39 PM
05/18/04 05:39 PM
L
lyledunn  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 159
N.Ireland
Paul,
Genny earth reference electrode is not an option, it is a must! Regulations require it to be independent of po-co supply earth, just in case that earth is lost.


regards

lyle dunn
Re: Generators #140833
05/23/04 01:35 AM
05/23/04 01:35 AM
P
PaulCornwall  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 112
England
Thanks for your replies..
i have been on holiday..

Thanks Paul for the calculation advise..forgot to call 140kva ..140,000..that would give me approx 65 amps per phase??

In reply to all your replies.. the building has a mains single phase supply, i will be installing a 3 phase dis board,, fed off this via a change over switch will be the buildings existing single phase supply, so when the genny is running it will have to power everything, machines and building,, when the genny is stopped he can then put the lights and power back on to the mains,, he would not obviously be able to have both on at the same time..

With regard to the neutral, i would assume a 4 core cable (3 phase and neutral) would run to the genny where the neutral would be bonded to to the gennys earth..
i cant see that any parrallel paths would be created if it was connected in this way..

i said i have just come back from my hols in Portugal.. if any one is interested the colours in domestic houses are black,,phase.. blue neutral.. ??? will they be changing too??

many thanks guys..

Re: Generators #140834
05/23/04 02:16 PM
05/23/04 02:16 PM
P
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
Welcome back to Blighty! Looks like you brought some summer back with you..... [Linked Image]

Quote
forgot to call 140kva ..140,000..that would give me approx 65 amps per phase??

Nope. 140kVa / 415V / 1.73 = 195A per phase, assuming an evenly balanced load.

Quote
With regard to the neutral, i would assume a 4 core cable (3 phase and neutral) would run to the genny where the neutral would be bonded to to the gennys earth..
i cant see that any parrallel paths would be created if it was connected in this way..


What is the earthing system on the existing single-phase supply? TT? TN-C-S?

Re: Generators #140835
05/23/04 04:25 PM
05/23/04 04:25 PM
P
PaulCornwall  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 112
England
Hello Paul

Ok i am havin a blonde day here, got it now.. yes i am a spark [Linked Image]

I will have to presume the earth is a TT,, it is very rural.. if you want i can check it out later in the week..

[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 05-25-2004).]

Re: Generators #140836
05/23/04 04:34 PM
05/23/04 04:34 PM
P
PaulCornwall  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 112
England
look i cant even get the smilies to work.................... :rolleye

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