ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
Video: Inventor of the GFCI self-testing shocks
by Bill Addiss. 01/17/18 11:11 PM
FPE in Germany
by HotLine1. 01/17/18 07:07 PM
VDE 0100 to introduce AFCIs
by LongRunner. 01/17/18 10:32 AM
Fujifilm Recalls Power Adapter Wall Plugs
by Admin. 01/16/18 07:04 PM
Air Compressor feeder conductor sizing
by Potseal. 01/15/18 09:08 PM
New in the Gallery:
Housebilding DIY wiring
SE cable question
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 14 guests, and 14 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Downlights #134803
11/30/02 01:15 AM
11/30/02 01:15 AM
Trumpy  Offline
OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,231
SI,New Zealand
What are the requirements, in your country,
for the installation of Flush-mounting Downlight fittings?.
We have a whole Code of Practice, for these types of lights, especially ELV Dichroics.
Your input please-

Test Equipment:
Large Selection of Test Equipment For Electrical, HVAC, Test & Measurement
Large Selection of Test Equipment For Electrical, HVAC, Test & Measurement
Re: Downlights #134804
11/30/02 11:09 AM
11/30/02 11:09 AM
P
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
Pretty much what you would expect: The final connection to the light made with heat-resistant flex (unless the terminal block is otherwise designated as taking NM directly), insulation cleared around and above the lamp to prevent overheating, fitted to a non-combustible surface (i.e. not the straw & plaster ceiling that somebody wanted me to install some in!).

Re: Downlights #134805
12/15/02 12:08 AM
12/15/02 12:08 AM
Trumpy  Offline
OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,231
SI,New Zealand
Man, if they only done it your way Paul,
Over here, the TPS, is fed straight into the
downlight fitting, no HR flex, no J-Box, no
nothing.
If I was wiring my own house, it would be done like you said.
Just a simple thing like clipping cables,
happen's very seldom over here.
It's just a big mess.

Re: Downlights #134806
12/15/02 07:05 AM
12/15/02 07:05 AM
P
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
The connection method I described is the way it should be done (and, of course, the way that I do it! [Linked Image]).

Sadly, I see so many of these things incorrectly installed exactly as you say: NM-type cable straight into the fitting. I frequently see the things completely enclosed in fiberglass insulation as well. I don't doubt that John & David will tell you the same thing.

Here's a typical example (copied from another thread);
[Linked Image]
Oh, and this one was supposedly fitted by a "professional!" [Linked Image]

By the way, I assume that your TPS is normal PVC-sheathed NM-type cable. Is TPS Tough Plastic Sheath? (We used to have an old TRS cable - Tough Rubber Sheath.)


[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 12-15-2002).]

Re: Downlights #134807
12/16/02 12:46 AM
12/16/02 12:46 AM
Trumpy  Offline
OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,231
SI,New Zealand
Yes Paul,
TPS, is short for Tough-Plastic-Sheathed
cable.
What is NM cable?.
I note that in your penultimate reply, you
mentioned a straw and plaster roof, is that the cieling lining?.
How do they cope in areas of Devonshire and
such, that have thatched roofs?. [Linked Image]

Re: Downlights #134808
12/16/02 01:55 PM
12/16/02 01:55 PM
P
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
Yes, the straw and plaster was the ceiling of the rooms, fitted below the joists.

Good point on the thatched roofs -- I've never had to work in one of those, so I haven't really had to think about it. I can't think of anything in BS7671 that refers to thatched roofs specifically; it would be covered by the general rules.

NM is the American designation meaning Non-Metallic; i.e. equivalent to your TPS or British "Twin & earth." Often known in the U.S. by the name Romex.

Re: Downlights #134809
12/17/02 12:44 AM
12/17/02 12:44 AM
Trumpy  Offline
OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,231
SI,New Zealand
Hey thanks Paul, for your explanation of the NM type cable, makes sense, I suppose.
I never knew what Romex was.
Are there any other abbreviations that I should know about, relating to cable types?.
[Linked Image]

Re: Downlights #134810
12/17/02 07:57 AM
12/17/02 07:57 AM
T
Texas_Ranger  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,409
Vienna, Austria
NYM is the german/austrian name for round Romex style cable, followed by number and size of conductors, e.g. NYM 3x1.5, the most commonly used cable type for any wiring, the number 3 means it's a blue conductor for neutral, black or brown for live and yellow/green for ground. Other common types are NYM 3x2.5 and NYM 5x2.5, NYM 4x1.5 is used for a 3way switch (common, 2 travelers and ground).

Re: Downlights #134811
12/17/02 10:55 AM
12/17/02 10:55 AM
P
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
There is a whole range of American designations which are completely different from those used in the U.K. and Europe.

SPT-1 and SPT-2 are flat "zip-cord" or "figure-8" power cords, for example. You'll see SO, SJT, and SVT used to refer to some other jacketed power cords in thermoplastic or rubber.

THHN or THWN are PVC-insulated wires such as are commonly drawn through conduit.

Somewhere, I have a list of how to decode all the letters, but I can't lay my hands on it at the moment. One of our American friends might be able to oblige...... [Linked Image]

Re: Downlights #134812
12/17/02 02:30 PM
12/17/02 02:30 PM
S
SvenNYC  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,691
New York City
The ones I know offhand because I use them practically every day:

SPT-1, SPT-2 and SPT-3: Single Parallel Thermolastic - the number refers to the thickness of the isulation - 1 is the thinnest.

SPT-1 is usually for 18 AWG wire. SPT-2 can be used for either 18 or 16AWG wire. SPT-3 is usually for flat 3-conductor (2 plus earth) cord such as used on air conditioners.

This is also affectionally known as ZIP CORD, so when you see me use that term, this is what I'm talking about.

* A variation of SPT cord is NISPT - Non Integral Single Parallel Thermoplastic which is double insulated like the two-conductor flat European cord. This has only been on the American OEM market for a couple of years. Haven't seen it on the racks at hardware stores yet....it's usually used for the factory supplied cord for radios, TV sets and tape recorders and other such non-grounded audio/video equipment.

----
SJ: Service Junior

SJT: Service Junior Thermoplastic

* Both of these are double insulated with a round cross section. I believe SJ is rubber jacketed and SJT is thermoplastic jacketed. They are also filled with fiber and paper to strengthen it.
---

SVT: Service Vacuum Thermoplastic - extra flexible for use on vacuum cleaners, has a round cross section also.

---

HPN: Heater Parallel Neoprene (for flat-irons, electric fires, electric toasters, etc.)

--
XT: Christmas (think X-mas) Tree thermopastic - used for christmas tree wires

I just now found the list of all the UL cable designations for AC cords - it even has the insulation dimensions for the different SPT cords:

Go to this link!! [Linked Image]
http://www.volexpowercords.com/technical_information/ul_cord_type_designations.html

In fact, this link has other interesting technical documentation:
http://www.volexpowercords.com/technical_information/

Both links are from Volex, a manufacturer of cordsets.

[This message has been edited by SvenNYC (edited 12-17-2002).]

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
watersparkfalls
watersparkfalls
Washington...Not DC
Posts: 222
Joined: March 2005
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
sparky 22
Admin 20
Potseal 13
Popular Topics(Views)
243,530 Are you busy
180,334 Re: Forum
170,823 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.031s Queries: 15 (0.006s) Memory: 1.0263 MB (Peak: 1.2049 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-01-18 05:40:57 UTC