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service-volts on waterpipe ground wire #13392
09/02/02 08:34 PM
09/02/02 08:34 PM
A
ANDY  Offline OP
Junior Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7
south amboy nj USA
Hello again ,Ihave a question about a service I did last week. The new service is a 200 amp 30circiut SQD.The old service was a 100a SQD ,the homeowner complained that every time the a.c. kicked on his lights would dim the same thing happens when the pool filter is turned on.The old panel had 4 tandum breakers in it with a total of 18 circuits . While doing the final connections I went to connect the grounded conductor and the old stranded wire pulled right out. This was one of the problems, I attached the new wire to poco wire . I notice the problem still exist, I checked all my connections they were tight. I took a amp reading L1=22 L2=28 N6 amps and the wire going to the water pipe was reading 4.8amps .After asking the homeowner if POCO did any work in the area he said YES a car hit a pole across the street a cracked it .They put a new pole about 5ft over ,but all thier connections are in the same spot. I told the homeowner after it is inspected tell the POCO's service truck to check thier connections .Also the wire going to the ground rod had 0 amps,this I don't understand .Any input would be helpfull.

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: service-volts on waterpipe ground wire #13393
09/02/02 08:43 PM
09/02/02 08:43 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,919
Brick, NJ USA
Andy:
A little more info is required.
Is the "newservice" just a panel change?
or did you install a new meter pan, new service drop, etc??
You refered to "the old stranded..pulled out"
From what??

If the lights still dim, and you installed everything new; then call the POCO. You may have a "undersized drop", bad connections at the pot, or a myrid of other possibilities.

PS: I just noticed that you are "close by"

HotLine1
John

[This message has been edited by HotLine1 (edited 09-02-2002).]


John
Re: service-volts on waterpipe ground wire #13394
09/02/02 09:13 PM
09/02/02 09:13 PM
A
ANDY  Offline OP
Junior Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7
south amboy nj USA
John, everything is new from service head to the panel . the old wire pulled out of the POCO crimp. Also the water meter is 20ft away from the panel the ground wod is 8ft away but no amp reading . got to go to work check in the morning thanks

Re: service-volts on waterpipe ground wire #13395
09/02/02 11:13 PM
09/02/02 11:13 PM
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,890
NY, USA
Andy,

If what you are wondering is why there seems to be no current on the wire to the ground rod that would be because it is a much poorer path for current to flow back to the source. The current is trying to get back to the source (transformer) and the waterpipe is a much better path than the earth itself, so more current will flow on the waterpipe. (It could be going through the water pipe to the house next-door and through their service neutral) Some will flow thru the ground rod but perhaps less than your meter can measure.

Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 09-03-2002).]

Re: service-volts on waterpipe ground wire #13396
09/03/02 07:19 AM
09/03/02 07:19 AM
R
resqcapt19  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
Current will always be carried by the metal underground water piping system where the water pipe system interconnects a number of buildings. Each house has the grounded conductor bonded to the common metal underground water piping system. This places the water piping system in parallel with the grounded conductors. This current is not related to the voltage dip problems that you are experiencing.
Don


Don(resqcapt19)
Re: service-volts on waterpipe ground wire #13397
09/03/02 04:53 PM
09/03/02 04:53 PM
A
ANDY  Offline OP
Junior Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7
south amboy nj USA
Thanks to all the replies ,I still think there is a problem with POCO's pole connections . A loose neutral connection would cause the unbalance load to go through the water pipe .

Re: service-volts on waterpipe ground wire #13398
09/03/02 05:29 PM
09/03/02 05:29 PM
R
resqcapt19  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
Andy,
You are correct that a poor connection on the grounded conductor will cause more current to flow on the water pipe. The current that you measured on the water pipe might even becomming from another house. Did you measure the water pipe current with the service disconnect open?
Don


Don(resqcapt19)
Re: service-volts on waterpipe ground wire #13399
09/03/02 09:18 PM
09/03/02 09:18 PM
J
jlhmaint  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 202
Fredericktown, OH, U.S.A
I don't have alot of residential experience but have been in the industrial setting for 8yrs so bear with me here. My question is if i take out all the copper water lines or most of them in my house and go to PVC does this create a problem with the water pipe grounds.

Re: service-volts on waterpipe ground wire #13400
09/04/02 10:04 AM
09/04/02 10:04 AM
E
ElectricAL  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 597
Minneapolis, MN USA
There are two possible answers. The water pipe coming into your house, as long as it stays metal, will be unchanged in what it does as the Grounding Electrode (250.52).

Part two: any equipment grounds for fixtures or outlets that were connected to the interior water pipe (back when it was allowed) will now have to be rerouted to the electrical system EGC. The remaining metal pipe that you don't replace will need to be bonded according to 250.104.


Al Hildenbrand
Re: service-volts on waterpipe ground wire #13401
09/04/02 09:54 PM
09/04/02 09:54 PM
J
jlhmaint  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 202
Fredericktown, OH, U.S.A
ok, thanks for the info. alot of the house has been converted to pvc but i think my 5 and 9yr old could have done a better job. and when i put in a new 200amp service i am planning on looking over the entire house and fixing any problem areas. shouldnt be to hard the house was built in 65 and it is single story small ranch with panel in basemant so you can follow most runs fairly well.


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