ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Recent Posts
VFD MotorFeeders
by gfretwell. 10/19/17 01:02 AM
Generator Cable Sizing
by brsele. 10/18/17 07:39 PM
What do you do?
by gfretwell. 10/17/17 01:08 AM
Good ol' copper pipe in the fuse holder trick
by HotLine1. 10/16/17 07:16 PM
Another generator question
by HotLine1. 10/16/17 07:02 PM
New in the Gallery:
Gallery Test
Popular Topics(Views)
241,443 Are you busy
177,419 Re: Forum
169,009 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 6 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#124621 - 11/12/06 11:18 AM Pics from Shockme77  
Trumpy  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,223
SI,New Zealand
Photos and info submitted by Shockme77:
Quote
I'm just about done trimming-out a house and I thought
I'd share some pics of the work I've done. I've never before sent in pictures for the discussion forum and I understand that I'm opening myself up to criticism, so fire-away!. This single-family dwelling is in Scotch
Plains, New Jersey and hasn't been sold yet. Just
slightly less than 5k SQ', and the asking price is $1.4.


[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]


Tools for Electricians:

#124622 - 11/12/06 11:46 AM Re: Pics from Shockme77  
Jim M  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 457
Chestertown, MD, USA
Doesn't look like the builder cared enough to option out the place with a structured wiring system cabinet. Also doesn't look like enough branch circuits.

I think I would have used some of the KO's in the TJIs to run my home runs through.


#124623 - 11/12/06 12:00 PM Re: Pics from Shockme77  
SteveFehr  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,213
Chesapeake, VA
Your AHJ lets you bundle that many Romex together for long runs without derating?


#124624 - 11/12/06 01:33 PM Re: Pics from Shockme77  
Alan Nadon  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 399
Elkhart, IN. USA
Violation.
Check Section 334.15(C)
Otherwise it would pass inspection.
Alan--
One solution would be to drop the wires, install 1X2 or other running boards, and put the wires back up. You should check with the manufacturer of the T joist since they do not like to have things nailed or screwed to the bottom edge.
A--

[This message has been edited by Alan Nadon (edited 11-12-2006).]

[This message has been edited by Alan Nadon (edited 11-12-2006).]


Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.

#124625 - 11/12/06 01:44 PM Re: Pics from Shockme77  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
It's only a bundle if you fail to "maintain spacing." The plastic trees he used to support the romex do maintain spacing between the wires. Indeed, it looks like he exceeded code requirements for support.

Since he's using proper hangers, I'm not sure what the use of running boards would accomplish; there does not appear to be any significant 'droop' to the cables. Perhaps this will need to be addressed in the next code cycle?

The KO's in the joists NEVE line up. Nor would using them for support -in lieu of runing boards- support the cables any better than they already are supported.

Awfully nice that the gutter crew saw fit to go around the service drop; usuallym they try to pry it out from the wall!


The only 'nit' I see to pick at is the lack of working space in front of one of the air conditioner disconnects.


#124626 - 11/12/06 04:57 PM Re: Pics from Shockme77  
LarryC  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 783
Winchester, NH, US
Where is the outlet for the air conditioning condensors?

Do you have a ground rod under the meter?

Does the central steel beam need to be bonded?

Larry C


#124627 - 11/12/06 05:07 PM Re: Pics from Shockme77  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
No bundling derating issue to even consider if there are less than 9 current carrying conductors in either of those bundles if indeed the AHJ feels they are bundles.

(Mine would)


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#124628 - 11/12/06 06:15 PM Re: Pics from Shockme77  
ShockMe77  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 821
Rahway, New Jersey
Quote
Also doesn't look like enough branch circuits.


I installed a 125 AMP sub panel in the 2nd floor laundry room. It feeds 5 bedrooms, 1 future bedroom, 2 full baths, master bathroom jacuzzi (20 amp), 2 furnaces, and all 2nd floor and attic lighting. It is full at 20 full size breakers but has the capacity for 40 twins.

Quote
One solution would be to drop the wires, install 1X2 or other running boards, and put the wires back up.


That's what I did originally. The boss didn't like it that way and had me change it to how it is now.

Quote
Awfully nice that the gutter crew saw fit to go around the service drop; usuallym they try to pry it out from the wall!


Fortuneatly, I got to do the service before the gutters were installed.

Quote
Where is the outlet for the air conditioning condensors?
Do you have a ground rod under the meter?

Does the central steel beam need to be bonded?


The 210.63 requirement is within 25' of the equipment but can't be seen in the picture. It's there though.

No ground rod is needed. The Ufer was available and was used. The copper water pipes are bonded by #4 cu and the water heater is jumped out from hot to cold.

Quote
No bundling derating issue to even consider if there are less than 9 current carrying conductors in either of those bundles if indeed the AHJ feels they are bundles.


The AHJ had no issues with bundling. He asked me a question about article 250.148 during the rough inspection and was impressed that I knew what he was talking about.

Not sure when the final inspection will be though.


#124629 - 11/13/06 12:13 PM Re: Pics from Shockme77  
Alan Nadon  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 399
Elkhart, IN. USA
Shock, and all,
NEC 334.15(C) In Unfinished Basements. Where cable is run at angles with joist in ubfinished basements , ...2 #6 or 3 #8 directly to lower edge....
Smaller cables SHALL be run either through bored holes in joist or on running boards.
Below the joist NM cable is a violation.
It isn't just support but, protection. People used to use the wires as clothes line and hang wet clothes from wire hangers from the conductors. A real treat when they had K&T wiring. [Linked Image]
Alan--


Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.

#124630 - 11/13/06 05:38 PM Re: Pics from Shockme77  
ShockMe77  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 821
Rahway, New Jersey
Alan, I interpret article 334.15(C) the same way you do. In fact, that is how I originally installed the cables, on a running board until I was told by the builder AND my boss to do it the way you see it is now. Most inspectors around here are ok with this install as long as it can be boxed-out later if a sheetrock ceiling is installed instead of a suspended ceiling.


Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Member Spotlight
CDS
CDS
Nicholson Ga
Posts: 34
Joined: June 2006
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.023s Queries: 15 (0.006s) Memory: 0.8218 MB (Peak: 0.9983 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-10-22 08:25:52 UTC