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#12228 - 08/05/02 02:55 AM Family History Questions...  
2E1X4  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10
Dennisport, MA, USA
How many here are first generation Electricians? The reason that I ask is that I just read the post on the "Younger Generation" not wanting to learn the trade, just wanting to get the license and make the big money...it bugged me.

I think that there is a big difference between generations and the way that the trades are looked upon...

I am wondering how many of the "Younger Generation" are trying to survive on an apprentice wage while on his or her half hour lunch break, reads about a 23 year old college drop-out who just made 40 million dollars selling the rights to his file sharing program.

Our society has changed its views of the trades from what used to be very respectable careers to almost looking upon them as a cop-out...almost like joining the military.

We are told that if you don't have at least a four year degree you are going to make it in life...you end up learning a trade...

So I ask, how many of you were in the military...how many of you went to a vocational school for high school? How many of you have kids that you are trying to put through college because you want them to "do better than I did"?

I am a member of the "Younger Generation" when it comes to this message board and I would love to be a license holder...more money in the pocket to make things easier at home...what's wrong with that?

The code classes are supposed to get you ready for the tests...this message board is for those that want to excel in the field...teach the tests and let them get there licenses...let them earn a living...but there are still going to be those that will ask the How's and the Why's...just because they want to be proud of the title that they hold...Licensed Electrician

Humbly and with the utmost respect,

2E1X4


Brendan Carroll
Ignorance is BISS
csofcc@comcast.net

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#12229 - 08/05/02 06:08 AM Re: Family History Questions...  
George Corron  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 717
Lorton, Va USA
Hold on there slick. Most members of this forum are pretty danged proud of what we are. What we are are electricians of one sort or another from across a broad spectrum of the trade.
I have been an electrician for over 30 years, and wired everything from houses (though not many) to the control rooms of some pretty large power generation facilities and made most of the stops in between.

So don't come off like our attitude is that tradesmen ain't squat.

I come from a family of tradesmen as well, though not electrical so that 'tude don't fly here.

Most of us have a similar attitude for our children, if they want to go to college, we'll assist, if they want to work in the trades, we'll assist, your life choice should have a large input from you.

As for time spent in school, lemme see, 2 nights a week, 3 hours a night, for 4 years, THEN I got to take a year long motor course, HV splicing, A/C, also at night.

But you're hinting that I'm uneducated?????????

I notice you're a computer programmer..........and then an electrical apprentice. Well, I'm sure Bill Gates has a web site, it's just down to the left.


#12230 - 08/05/02 06:39 AM Re: Family History Questions...  
The_Lightman  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 49
Orlando, Fl, USA
So I ask, how many of you were in the military...12 yrs. E-5, MOS 51R Interior Electrician.


#12231 - 08/05/02 07:00 AM Re: Family History Questions...  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,306
right on George...

Methinks you've heard the voice of frustration here,2E1X4 .
The more experienced members of the trade are confronted by instant gratification sought by today's apprenticeships focus on licensure, and/or the aftermarket courses that would gear all to this end.

The reality is a lifelong dedication as a student of the code is necessary, as this is an evolving 'living' document.

A license may be a meal ticket, yet is far from a know all end all....

Quote
Our society has changed its views of the trades from what used to be very respectable careers to almost looking upon them as a cop-out...almost like joining the military.


I did read, althought i cannot seem to find it (messy desk here) about how some electrical orginizaton is trying to reach high school councilors across the nation.
Apparently we are viewed as being down there with Norton the sewer worker.
I beg to differ...
As a matter of fact, one can get fairly intense in the general trade,not to mention the specialized avenues avaiable.

Quote
We are told that if you don't have at least a four year degree you are going to make it in life...you end up learning a trade...

True, said social stigmatizim exists, probably widening the gap bettween white & blue collars of late....

but you tell me..... my Bro whom i was originally apprenticed to is raking in $47.50 per hr,( working for others) full bennies (a rubinski too)


#12232 - 08/05/02 08:09 AM Re: Family History Questions...  
2E1X4  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10
Dennisport, MA, USA
I guess a little clarification is needed...but I think I got Georges attention...are you mad...good, 'cause so am I...

My post was not intended to come across as having an attitude…just a little frustration…

George, I hate to point this out…but I was complimenting the members of this forum, not “Hinting at uneducated”. I am saying that I don’t like the stigma that has fallen on the trades since my father started into the plumbing trade over 40 years ago.

I respect all trades…as we all have to do our part…that’s what a society is…and this group of professionals proves that there is a desire to continue the educational process and better the work that we perform.

Simply put…society has lessened the importance of the tradesmen from being respectable to a cop out. I don’t like it but it is true. What I didn’t like was the overall generalization that all of the “Younger Generation” want to have the license and don’t really care about the theory…it just isn’t true…I think I can speak for a lot of “US” in saying that the expectations might be a little different than what they used to be…and we feel it and try to deal…everything is quicker in today’s society…except the time that it takes to get the license and earn a “respectable” income…

As for me…Went to a military high school, joined the Air Force – 2E1X4 (13 month tech school, 9 hours a day, five days a week, covering electronics, electrical theory, security, television, phone systems, photo principles…you get the picture). I enjoy computers a lot and made a go at it…couldn’t survive…didn’t have the piece of paper…

Now I am back into what I was trained in…and I love it….just don’t like being told that I want it now and don’t deserve it…I am here…reading and commenting…just like the rest here and don’t like to be told that “My” generation is just going through the motions…and doesn’t really care about the importance of the trade…and the history. I think if you give us time …and a little credit for defying the stigmas…we will show you that we can do the work…hopefully to the same quality and standards that have been set by our brothers and sisters in the trade…and make the stigma go away…

“Electrons make the world go ‘round”

As always…with the utmost respect…

2E1X4


Brendan Carroll
Ignorance is BISS
csofcc@comcast.net

#12233 - 08/05/02 08:31 AM Re: Family History Questions...  
jlhmaint  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 202
Fredericktown, OH, U.S.A
I have an associate degree in industrial electrical maintenance, do i know everything no and the guy that says he does is lying. i am proud of what i do and love to go to work everyday. iam the first person in my family to graduate high school let alone college. my dad and grandfather both work for GM however that was back in a time when you could get a job without an education and trust the company that you work for.

as for the younger generation no one wants to get there hands dirty but they want to make 100 grand a year no matter what they know. our society has become one based on what you have and how much you make. not being happy and spending time with your family. having a 300,000 house and a mercedes in the drive is what all these kids seem to want but they dont want to put in the time they think everyone owes them something. and there are alot of people who make more than most people could ever dream of for doing something they love and still bitch about it look at the baseball players


#12234 - 08/05/02 08:35 AM Re: Family History Questions...  
electric-ed  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 175
Canada
2E1X4,
I think you may have been referring to my post in another thread, where I said -

"I have been teaching apprentice electricans for 30 years and have noticed a very disturbing trend. Each year there seems to be fewer young people that are interested in learning how the system and equipment works."

Did you notice that I said fewer.

There are many excellent young apprentices, but I'll stick with my opinion that there are fewer than in years past.

Ed


#12235 - 08/05/02 08:37 AM Re: Family History Questions...  
George Corron  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 717
Lorton, Va USA
If I misread your intent, mea culpa.

Lemme see, when I came in the trade, 4 years practical field experience....PERIOD for a journeymans license in the tri-state area where I work (VA, MD, DC).

Masters - you had to hold a journeymans card for 4 years, or 8 years trade experience (or 4 years trade experience + engineers degree).

Class A Va state masters - 8 years trade experience, letter from engineering firm stating that you have had 4 years working with design, letter from architect stating your design experience, letter from supply house stating your business expertise, letter from another master stating personal experience running work of OVER 1 million dollars. Letter from banker stating record. 16 hour masters test - not only CLOSED book code portion, but I had to calculate a hospital, a shopping mall, and a few dozen other minor type calcs. Had mine since 1981, at the time I was the youngest man to ever complete the requirements.

The District of Columbia had a law that required an engineer to have a master sign that his design was workable, an unlimited master of course.

Now in those days, (lemme put my teeth back in and adjust my glasses, sonny) the only test I was allowed to use a calculator in was the VA state Class A, and mine was the first group to do so. It was slide rule and pencil. I possess over 30 masters licenses in different counties and jurisdictions.

Now - 3 hour open book test. All jurisdictions.

In VA, a 3 hour test gets you the journeymans card, hold it one year and you can take the 3 hour masters test. I only know VA because I teach apprentices and try to keep up on it for them, not sure about the others as far as time goes, but the tests are the same because they are administered by a private testing company.

Kinda see why it looks as if the requirements may be slipping?


#12236 - 08/05/02 04:36 PM Re: Family History Questions...  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,306
George,
i believe you've just reduced me to a yellow belt.....


#12237 - 08/05/02 06:02 PM Re: Family History Questions...  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,306
[Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 08-05-2002).]


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