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Where are the Counter Receptacles? #120669
04/28/05 11:01 PM
04/28/05 11:01 PM
Admin  Offline
OP
Administrator
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,482
NY, USA
Quote
A fine mess I've gotten myself into. Eight feet of counter space with one legal receptacle. Other than the side wall there is no place for receptacles along the length of the counter. Customer is very picky about what she sees as the receptacle tucked into the corner shows. Plenty of receptacles with the appliance garages open but not technically satisfying the NEC requirements. Would you bend the rules like this?

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Re: Where are the Counter Receptacles? #120670
04/28/05 11:21 PM
04/28/05 11:21 PM
Trumpy  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,231
SI,New Zealand
Gee that's a tough one Scott.
Certainly makes life diffcult with so little wall space, it's a real problem with kitchen cabinetry.
Looks like bending the rules slightly is all you can do in a situation like this. [Linked Image]

Re: Where are the Counter Receptacles? #120671
04/29/05 08:58 AM
04/29/05 08:58 AM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Lets see...we have appliances neatly stored, with recepacles within easy reach, but technically not counted because they're inside the cabinets.....remove the cabinet, and we're legal.
This looks to be safe- and sensible. I think the code is wrong. I think the exclusion of the appliance 'garage' from consideration should be deleted from code.

Re: Where are the Counter Receptacles? #120672
04/29/05 12:12 PM
04/29/05 12:12 PM
S
SolarPowered  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 625
Palo Alto, CA, USA
It seems to me that there should be a "where reasonably possible" modifier in some of the receptacle requirements. The NEC receptacle requirements should not be dictating the design of the house--that's getting the cart before the horse. Clearly there's not a realistic safety issue here--it's quite unlikely that someone's going to permanently park something in front of the appliance garages and run ten feet of cord to the receptacle on the far right. And even if they did, it's not all that unsafe. (Admittedly, cords are less safe than Chapter 3 wiring in the walls. But the small chance that someone's going to put something there for the long term, times the risk of a cord, isn't very big.)

I'm saying that the unbending receptacle requirements can get rather Draconian in some circumstances, and there needs to be a prioritization of whether you're designing the house for the convenience of the NEC writers, or rather the NEC exists to guide a reasonable electrical installation for the house.

Re: Where are the Counter Receptacles? #120673
04/29/05 06:57 PM
04/29/05 06:57 PM
E
e57  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
S.F.,CA USA
I really don't think that the instalation missed the intent of the code. There are recepticals available in what (without a tape measure) I can see as applying to code. (except the cab doors, making an "Appliance garage") What defines an "appliance garage" anyway?

Maybe some plug-mold (ooh I hate the word 'plug... mold') under the front edge of the counter-top? It would satify the code, and the customer need not see, or for that matter use them if they dont want to.

Doh, I looked at the pic again, no over-hang to hide it.... SOL

On a simular note: Ever notice there are few if any plugs ever seen in those "Design" magazines, as they were not required in the the "display" they show. Maybe the code should require outlets be shown in the display too?

[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 04-29-2005).]


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
Re: Where are the Counter Receptacles? #120674
04/29/05 07:49 PM
04/29/05 07:49 PM
P
PCBelarge  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 681
Dobbs Ferry, NY, USA
The one receptacle that serves the countertop needs an "inuse cover". Mounted below the wine rack constistutes a wet location [Linked Image]

This is a tough spot in regards to the NEC requirments. What about a receptacle on the wall to the left of the cabinets?

How about a doghouse mounted in the countertop [Linked Image] [Linked Image]


Pierre Belarge

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