ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
VDE 0100 to introduce AFCIs
by LongRunner. 01/17/18 10:32 AM
Fujifilm Recalls Power Adapter Wall Plugs
by Admin. 01/16/18 07:04 PM
Air Compressor feeder conductor sizing
by Potseal. 01/15/18 09:08 PM
Under carpet cable?
by HotLine1. 01/15/18 09:57 AM
New in the Gallery:
Housebilding DIY wiring
SE cable question
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 30 guests, and 13 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Just a Coincidence? #120009
02/17/05 07:30 PM
02/17/05 07:30 PM
electure  Offline
OP
Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,263
Fullerton, CA USA
Quote
Here's an old Hubbell outlet and also a plug. It happens to be the
same pin pattern as plugs in Australia, as an Australian power
plug will plug into this outlet without forcing it. Note that the
Hubbell cardboard insert fits the Australian plug exactly. The wall
outlet
pictured is supplying 250V 60Hz each current carrying pin at 125V
from ground instead of 250V 50Hz in Australia where they have a
neutral
and one pin hot at 250V. Wonder if Australia got this style connector
from Hubbell or visa versa.... Australian loads are probably
designed
to not become dangerous if their outlets get miswired, the same as
American outlets can be. So any such Australian load plugged into the
Hubbell wall outlet should not mind the fact that both current
carrying
pins are hot (assuming it doesn't care about 50 vs 60Hz).


wa2ise


[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]

Tools for Electricians:
Re: Just a Coincidence? #120010
02/19/05 02:33 AM
02/19/05 02:33 AM
Trumpy  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,231
SI,New Zealand
Hi there wa2ise,
That's a strange one you've dug up there.
Just a note about reverse polarity between the Phase and Neutral pins, it does happen quite a bit here with appliances and it usually only gets picked up if the appliance is repaired.
Australia as a rule uses 240V single phase, but for some strange reason, Perth in Western Australia uses 250V single phase.
Also bear in mind 'ise, that Argentina also uses this same pin configuration, not sure what voltage they use, but the Phase/Neutral sequence is opposite to the AS/NZ standard and the socket is installed in Argentina with the Earth (ground) contact facing upwards.
Any idea what that socket is rated at, current wise?, they are rated at 10A maximum here in New Zealand @ 230V

Re: Just a Coincidence? #120011
02/19/05 08:42 PM
02/19/05 08:42 PM
W
wa2ise  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 785
Oradell NJ USA
Quote
Any idea what that socket is rated at, current wise?, they are rated at 10A maximum here in New Zealand @ 230V


The plug says 15A/125V or 10A/250V. Not sure why the lower current rating for the higher voltage. Unless when someone plugs or unplugs a load that is turned on, the arcing at the higher voltage causes more wear and abuse on the contacts.

I also have a few outlets and plugs using a similar pattern but slightly bigger. Just enough too big to be barely compatable with the above. Also 250V. But not a dryer plug. Smaller than those.

Re: Just a Coincidence? #120012
02/20/05 07:32 AM
02/20/05 07:32 AM
P
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
Seems like more than a coincidence. It would certainly be interesting to trace where the current Australian/NZ standard actually originated.

Regarding the polarity issue and running on split 120/240V supplies, have a look at the comments from this thread:
https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000772.html

Re: Just a Coincidence? #120013
02/20/05 08:23 AM
02/20/05 08:23 AM
Trumpy  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,231
SI,New Zealand
wa2ise,
Quote
Unless when someone plugs or unplugs a load that is turned on, the arcing at the higher voltage causes more wear and abuse on the contacts.

We have switches on our sockets over here:

[Linked Image]

The extra switch is just a coincedence. [Linked Image]

Re: Just a Coincidence? #120014
02/20/05 08:08 PM
02/20/05 08:08 PM
M
MattE  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 22
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Here's a single receptacle version which also accepts NEMA 1-15 plugs and is rated for 15A at 120V... this ones from Canada...

https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000098.html

I still don't know what these were used for in North America...

Re: Just a Coincidence? #120015
02/21/05 06:00 AM
02/21/05 06:00 AM
P
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
Quote
The extra switch is just a coincedence.

I've seen those in an Aussie catalog. Isn't that center swutch completely independent, so it can be used to operate a light, or maybe if a kitchen outlet it could operate a nearby garbage disposal?

That style of switch looks the same as that used on Clipsal brand fittings here (seen from time to time, but not that common).

Re: Just a Coincidence? #120016
02/21/05 07:49 AM
02/21/05 07:49 AM
electure  Offline
OP
Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,263
Fullerton, CA USA
This particular configuration is what we used to call a "Crowsfoot".

It's a NEMA 10-20, and is a 3 pole, 3 wire receptacle. 125/250 Volt.

The 3rd blade is for a neutral connection, and not a ground.

I haven't seen one in use in a very long time.

Re: Just a Coincidence? #120017
02/21/05 03:36 PM
02/21/05 03:36 PM
Trumpy  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,231
SI,New Zealand
Yes Paul,
It's actually an HPM branded socket-outlet.
There's really not a lot of difference in appearance between the brands.
The centre switch is totally independant of the sockets and can be used to control pretty much anything, as long as you stay within the current rating of the switch mechanism.
When doing a job like this, it's common here to use what we call an "engraved mechanism" to identify what type of circuit the switch controls.
Thus:

[Linked Image]

Re: Just a Coincidence? #120018
02/22/05 08:20 AM
02/22/05 08:20 AM
electure  Offline
OP
Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,263
Fullerton, CA USA
from wa2ise
Quote
electure,
I also have the 20A version, which I think is the NEMA 10-20 you mention. It's slightly bigger, as is seen in the pix below.
The 10A plug will (if you force it) fit the 20A outlet, but the 20A plug does
not fit the 10A outlet. Also the 10A outlet's ground pin is directly
strapped to the mounting yoke, so it can't be a neutral. However, the 20A
outlet "ground" (it's stamped "ground" on the plug pin) has its own screw
terminal and is not strapped to the mounting yoke. So that could be used as a neutral (physically, but is it code?).



[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]


Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
renosteinke
renosteinke
Blue Collar Country
Posts: 5,316
Joined: January 2005
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
sparky 23
Admin 20
Potseal 13
Popular Topics(Views)
243,527 Are you busy
180,329 Re: Forum
170,821 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.027s Queries: 14 (0.004s) Memory: 1.0130 MB (Peak: 1.1887 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-01-17 21:52:22 UTC