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#114147 - 01/13/03 08:38 PM Box Fill? ... This Box is Full!  
Admin  Offline

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,457
[Linked Image]

#1: I believe most of this is 14AWG. There might be some 12AWG, bottom left.

[Linked Image]

#2: Is it permissible to loop conductors around the screws as is shown here? The top has third conductor, barely under the screw.

[Linked Image]

#3: A little movement and the conductor came loose.


Tools for Electricians:

#114148 - 01/13/03 09:45 PM Re: Box Fill? ... This Box is Full!  
lighthouse  Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 134
philadelphia pa 19125
3 wires under one terminal..that's a no no.

i have seen this practice many times were a single conductor is wrap around 1 terminal

the white wires on the switch is not marked with black tape. this is a hot conductor.

i hope this box had an exstention ring.that adds to the total cubic inch of the box

and where are the grounds from the 2 romex cable.

#114149 - 01/13/03 10:20 PM Re: Box Fill? ... This Box is Full!  
SvenNYC  Offline
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,691
New York City
I don't see an extender ring....

Was this four (two duplex) switches in one 4 x 4?

#114150 - 01/13/03 10:33 PM Re: Box Fill? ... This Box is Full!  
HotLine1  Offline

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,864
Brick, NJ USA
Now think about this; how else could you make up that box, if the boss only gave you ONE WIRENUT??

That's all I see.
BTW; it looks like the ground conductors from the NMC are "there", but there is no ground screw/clip visable.

A lot of effort went into putting that mess together.


#114151 - 01/13/03 10:44 PM Re: Box Fill? ... This Box is Full!  
ga.sparky56  Offline
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 558
young harris georgia usa
That looks like its been there awhile. If I did that there would be a fire in about 2 days! Or less.

#114152 - 01/14/03 12:19 PM Re: Box Fill? ... This Box is Full!  
ThinkGood  Offline
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,081
Milwaukee, WI
OK, OK, here's the story.


(Sorry for shouting.)

Can you believe it? No, there was not an extender on the box. There was a duplex switch (am I using the correct term) on the right--a switch over a switch. To the left was a 3-way. This whole mess follows underground back to the house where the second 3-way switch is located.

There also had been a duplex receptacle further down the line, which had a strange characteristic: Plugging in a device in the top receptacle disabled the bottom one.

When I opened up the device, I found some spider eggs in there. I wonder if that had something to do with it.

Yes, it does appear that somebody spent quite some time putting it all together.

Here's how it was grounded:

[Linked Image]

It appears to me that the bare wire is of a smaller gauge than the others.

#114153 - 01/14/03 01:26 PM Re: Box Fill? ... This Box is Full!  
ThinkGood  Offline
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,081
Milwaukee, WI
lighthouse: As to the practice of looping the conductor around (that is, removing some insulation without cutting the conductor) -- was that ever OK as per the NEC?

#114154 - 01/14/03 02:09 PM Re: Box Fill? ... This Box is Full!  
resqcapt19  Offline
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
I don't know of any code rule that says you can't loop a wire around the screw terminal of a device and continue to another device. This practice was, at one time, required by the specs for a major fast food chain for the outlets that served the cash registers.


#114155 - 01/14/03 04:15 PM Re: Box Fill? ... This Box is Full!  
lighthouse  Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 134
philadelphia pa 19125
ThinkGood...i did not find anything in the code book saying you can or can not do this.the only thing i found on this is article 110-14-a ...i do see this done all the time in old res wiring(knob and tube)the wire comes into the box around the screw and off to the next sw/rec with about 2/3 inches of wire in the's allway fun trying to change the sw or rec.

#114156 - 01/15/03 12:42 AM Re: Box Fill? ... This Box is Full!  
ElectricAL  Offline
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 597
Minneapolis, MN USA

The reduced ground wire dates that piece of romex (is it UF?) to the mid '60s.


Al Hildenbrand

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