ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Potseal 11
Recent Posts
Permit Snafus...AHJs and Contractors Jump in
by HotLine1. 04/29/17 10:26 AM
201 volt equipment?
by bigpapa. 04/29/17 12:15 AM
Schneider LC1D09
by jraef. 04/28/17 11:05 PM
Electrode boilers question
by annemarie1. 04/27/17 01:40 PM
Why cables look like they do
by LongRunner. 04/26/17 09:36 AM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
234,948 Are you busy
169,778 Re: Forum
162,992 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 63 guests, and 9 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#110862 - 07/15/06 11:37 AM Fixing a Mess that Someone Left  
Admin  Offline

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,439
4 apartment building.

Someone called an electrican but I don't think so.

Just after the landlord gets back from vacation and tried to get his electrican to upgrade a service at one of the buildings he owns.

Owner bought 4 new panels and a 4 bank square D meter and wanted it installed.

His electrican did not feel like finishing a 4 meter service. This is what it is left like with no good layout as to placing the panels and refeeding the circuits. My boss and I are stumped as to what the guy was thinking. He tried to power the service which cut from the service drop and could not bug into due to hearing sparks and wire making sounds in the couduit feeding the meter.

He tried to temp in the 2 panels for the 4 apartments cause he wanted to get the hell out of there. Only powered some of the apartments back up and some had no power at all in 90 degree weather. Only left one of the phases hook up outside (wish I too a picture of that mess too) with the neutral. Feed from the service line was not even safed off.

Check out the pics and see if it can take you a few hours to fix and find what circuits go to what apartment. I just want to pull everything off the wall and do it right. I know I am not great but even in my worst day I could not even think of doing something like this.

I know I am leaving a lot of things out about the story so if ya got any questions just post them.

Jet98 (Joe)
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#110863 - 07/15/06 12:19 PM Re: Fixing a Mess that Someone Left  
Alan Nadon  Offline
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 399
Elkhart, IN. USA
Just salvage the panels and start all over.

If it was easy, anyone could do it.

#110864 - 07/15/06 12:31 PM Re: Fixing a Mess that Someone Left  
Celtic  Offline
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 361
That was no electrician that started that job...looks like a hack job from the word "GO".

I wouldn't be angry with the hack - he just created a HUGE job for a competant electrician [Linked Image]

Now if I were the LL...I would very, very POed at the hack....but you get what you pay for.

Being as this appears to be in NJ, in an area I service (possible Harrison area) ~ based on the PSE&G stickers ~ I would take this bull by the horns and staighten it out.

BTW, I would add a 5th meter for the house circuits.

[This message has been edited by Celtic (edited 07-15-2006).]

~~ CELTIC ~~
...-= NJ =-...

#110865 - 07/15/06 08:45 PM Re: Fixing a Mess that Someone Left  
trobb  Offline
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 110
Iowa City, IA
"Neat and workmanlike" anyone?

#110866 - 07/16/06 12:20 AM Re: Fixing a Mess that Someone Left  
mamills  Offline
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 745
Wharton, Texas, USA
"HORRIBLE" is the word that comes to my mind when I look at this mess. Someone's gonna have to spend a lot of time ringing out all of these circuits and figuring what goes where. Time to start from scratch.

I'm interested in those meter cans. Is the power supplied to them from appears to be some kind of duct behind them?

What was originally connected to the wires sticking out of those nipples beneath the first two meters?

Mike (mamills)

#110867 - 07/16/06 09:50 AM Re: Fixing a Mess that Someone Left  
steve ancient apprentice  Offline
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 169
west springfield,mass
As I usually say YUCK WHAT A MESS.
i AGREE WITH THE OTHER REPLY. Start the whole thing over. I may be only a third year apprentice but the best and safest way to do this is to start over. Its the bosses licence that owns the place when you finish. No way did a electrician do this. Good luck and please charge accoringly.

#110868 - 07/16/06 01:46 PM Re: Fixing a Mess that Someone Left  
JJM  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 100
I just love all how all the BX is connected in the panel on the left with no grounding/bonding.

Speaking of grounding/bonding, I don't see any in either of the panels, though I guess when that uninsulated neutral lug on the left panel touches the case, it could at least considered "bonded".

Also seems to be a little Romex connected into those fuseboxes pictured on top, despite the fact the building wiring is largely BX; probably some handyman electrical "improvements" and "upgrades".

Just curious, on those new BX connections on the right panel, were red heads used?

The best though is the seemingly live and very short hanging conductors from the left-most meter. Were they planning on extending those into a panel, or what?


[This message has been edited by JJM (edited 07-16-2006).]

#110869 - 07/16/06 02:07 PM Re: Fixing a Mess that Someone Left  
Luketrician  Offline
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 272
Sale Creek, TN USA
Good point on the liability issue. Once you start working on it, you have to tear back all the way back to the point where you feel confident that there isn't any hidden violations that could land you in court. As far as neat and workman like, I doubt that all of that existing mc would reach any of the panels when they are routed and strapped accordingly. Might as well mount a trough close to the ceiling to catch all of the mc. Then install terminal strips to change over from mc to say stranded THHN. I would comment further on the other obvious, and numerous violations, but this is turning into a novel. (Next)

Luke Clarke
Electrical Planner for TVA.

#110870 - 07/30/06 08:26 AM Re: Fixing a Mess that Someone Left  
ShockMe77  Offline
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 821
Rahway, New Jersey
I love fixing up services like this one. I really do. In fact, I wish I could do a service every single day of the week! Set up your tools, some lights, a radio, and away I go.

I understand the person who installed this is competant. This explains why both panels are butt up against each other so it looks nice and neat. The question is, how nice and neat is going to look when the panel covers are put on and they overlap one another? LOL

#110871 - 07/31/06 01:16 PM Re: Fixing a Mess that Someone Left  
RSmike  Offline
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 134
Holland, MI USA
But....And....Then the...Why....Who... Isn't.....

You didn't happen to find the ashes from a sacrificed code book on the floor?

I would start by labeling everything and where it goes...or at least went. Then I'd start over with a nice new 4x8 sheet of plywood on an empty wall. Send the tenants for ice cream....for a couple days....


Page 1 of 2 1 2

Member Spotlight
Levittown, PA
Posts: 810
Joined: April 2004
Show All Member Profiles 

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.022s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8205 MB (Peak: 0.9948 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-04-29 21:24:37 UTC