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#109359 - 10/14/05 05:27 AM Sheet Metal Screw For Neutral!  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Went on a service call for tripped breakers and found this.

[Linked Image]

We don't need no stinking lug kits, go to the truck and get me a 1" x 10 SMS and a fender washer.

I believe they pulled off a neutral bar to make space for this modification.

It was definitely a quality job, my call was for "exit signs, EBUs, wall outlets and fire alarm panel not working".

It turns out they where all on one circuit. I did find two conductors on that one breaker and separated that, but the FACP is still not a dedicated circuit.

I have recommend they have us come in and pull some new circuits. I doubt they will spend the money.

Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#109360 - 10/14/05 07:03 AM Re: Sheet Metal Screw For Neutral!  
electure  Offline


Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,260
Fullerton, CA USA
Don't let the batteries go dead on your camera, Bob.
Seems to me anyway that if there isn't a change made in this one, you will be back at some time and posting a picture reminiscent of a couple of others you've posted in the past. [Linked Image]


#109361 - 10/14/05 03:17 PM Re: Sheet Metal Screw For Neutral!  
CTwireman  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 840
Connecticut, USA
This installation looks fairly new, is it not?

Isn't it a local code violation to not have the FA panel on a dedicated circuit?


Peter

#109362 - 10/14/05 08:35 PM Re: Sheet Metal Screw For Neutral!  
stamcon  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 329
So San Francisco CA
What's up with the AL grounded conductor in the lug to the right of the screw/washer? It looks cooked, as does the insulation.

steve


#109363 - 10/14/05 10:46 PM Re: Sheet Metal Screw For Neutral!  
Elviscat  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 214
Seattle Washington USA
stamcon- I believe that the browning that makes that right hand grounded conductor look cooked is anti-oxident gel, you can see a little of the same thing on the left hand conductor as well, on the bare wire right above the lug

-Will


#109364 - 10/14/05 11:01 PM Re: Sheet Metal Screw For Neutral!  
LoneWolf  Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 7
Ontario
What about the far right lug in looks like it arked... or is that also oxident gel


if some one hands you lemons use the juice to blind them

#109365 - 10/15/05 06:11 AM Re: Sheet Metal Screw For Neutral!  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
CT I believe that NFPA 72 requires a dedicated circuit for fire alarm systems.


scouter, that is just a glob of anti-oxidant gel.

Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#109366 - 10/15/05 07:28 AM Re: Sheet Metal Screw For Neutral!  
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
Quote
It was definitely a quality job, my call was for "exit signs, EBUs, wall outlets and fire alarm panel not working".

It turns out they where all on one circuit.


That reminds me of a commercial job my father was involved with pricing way back in the 1970s.

When he examined the plans he found an elevator alarm system was shown as running on the same circuit as the elevator control gear itself. [Linked Image]


#109367 - 10/15/05 10:14 AM Re: Sheet Metal Screw For Neutral!  
George Corron  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 717
Lorton, Va USA
Stuck at work on Saturday, so here is the 1999 NFPA 72

1-5.2.5.2 Connections to the light and power service SHALL be on a dedicated branch circuit(s). The circuit(s) and connections shall be mechanically protected. Circuit disconnecting means SHALL have a red marking shall be accessible only to authorized personnel, an shall be identified as FIRE ALARM CIRCUIT CONTROL. The location of the circuit disconnecting means shall be permanently identified at the fire alarm control unit.

Enjoy!!!


#109368 - 10/15/05 01:13 PM Re: Sheet Metal Screw For Neutral!  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Nice cite, George. Anybody live where NFPA 72 has been adopted?

As for the sheet metal screw- where's the violation? Doesn't the NEC only address ground screws?

Allright, hold your horses. Hackwork is hackwork. Just pointing out the weaknesses of the code!

I think we went down a blind alley with the "sheet metal screw" provision. If nothing else, it sets the stage for a conflict with 110.14(A).
How about a general provision that connectors will be used as designed? The "sheet metal screw" issue came up, IMO, not because of the screw itself, but because the screws were being used improperly (too large of a hole, etc). Improper use will make any fastener fail.


Meanwhile, back to the pic. Just what is the screw attached to? Are we inadvertantly bonding the neutral to the case with it?


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