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This dog house is gone? #105855
09/12/05 06:41 PM
09/12/05 06:41 PM
Joe Tedesco  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
[Linked Image]

I found this a long time ago outside of a Fire Academy in their parking lot. The so-called "doghouse" was long gone.

Question:

I would have had a problem with the original equipment not being at least suitable for a wet location? What do you think about this issue?


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: This dog house is gone? #105856
09/13/05 06:39 PM
09/13/05 06:39 PM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
As long as the "doghouse" provided protection from the elements, I see no need for the equipment to be outdoor-rated.

That said, maintenance is obviously an issue. Without the enclosure, the equipment needs to be at least Nema-3R.

I see many outdoor installs where the equipment is not so rated. Theses are invariably old enough that I wonder if there were NEMA standards at the time. That, however, is not the case here.
I say this, because the one disconnect has provision for slipping a padlock into place to lock it "off." This provision didn't become common until well into the '70's- quite some time after both NEMA and UL had standards for outdoor equipment. The motor starter also appears, by the lack of rust, to be much newer than the disconnect.

I am beginning to suspect that this instal was re-done, well after the doghouse disintegrated, and as such should be weather-proof.

Re: This dog house is gone? #105857
09/20/05 06:07 PM
09/20/05 06:07 PM
V
VAElec  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 49
Sterling, Virginia, US
I have to ask how a few pieces of plywood creates a location where you do not need 3R in the first place? I have never seen sealant on a "doghouse", and doubt that if someone built one with pressure treated lumber (anyone seen this?) that they would caulk the joints.

Had to remove the GC provided doghouse at a temporary service for a high school renovation because the gargantuan size of a Siemens 400A 3R disconnect wouldn't even close to fit, but that's another topic. [Linked Image] One of the wonders of right hand left hand (haha)!


Pete
Re: This dog house is gone? #105858
09/20/05 07:26 PM
09/20/05 07:26 PM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
One needs to compare any proposed solution to the enclosure requirements.
The only thing that makes a Nema 1 evaluation different fro a Nema 3R evaluation is the "rain test"

An enclosure is exposed to a heavy rain, which is blown at a slight angle- probably similar to a 20mph wind. After the test, water is not allowed to have accumulated in the enclosure to where it contacts live parts.

Nema 3R, in other words, would be passed with an umbrella.

The classification has NO additional requirements for corrosion protection or weathering.
Hard as it may be to believe, in industrial cities a wood enclosure will outlast a painted/ plated/ sealed metal box many times over.

The condition of the materials at the time of the install is completely separate from the necessity to maintain the installation, or the requirement that they be suitable for the location. For example- a plastic box might concievably be made of a plastic that stands up fabulously to a corrosive environment- yet fails quickly in sunlight.

An electrician is expected to actually think....which is a scary concept in these days of "McManagement".


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