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What's Wrong With This Picture? #105697
06/25/05 08:46 AM
06/25/05 08:46 AM
Joe Tedesco  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
Quote
On a recent walk-thru I noticed the EC didn’t run separate hot, neutrals, and grounds for circuits that I indicated on my drawings.

I told the EC he needed to go back and add dedicated neutrals and grounds for the circuits indicated. This was his solution.

I questioned them about the code violation, said they never heard of that in the code.

By the way, this was the owner of the company and his lead foreman.

Craig Lusinger


[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: What's Wrong With This Picture? #105698
06/25/05 03:31 PM
06/25/05 03:31 PM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Let me make sure I understand you....the owner/lead foreman of an electrical contracting firm had never before heard that all conductors for a circuit were to be run in the same conduit? And neither of you could find it in the NEC?

Re: What's Wrong With This Picture? #105699
06/26/05 07:31 AM
06/26/05 07:31 AM
P
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
And why did he run those grounds across the front exterior of the panels? [Linked Image]

Maybe he didn't realize about keeping conductors of the same circuit together, but surely then he would have threaded these through the existing large nipple at the top between the panels? [Linked Image]

Re: What's Wrong With This Picture? #105700
06/26/05 11:30 AM
06/26/05 11:30 AM
A
Active 1  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 687
Grayslake IL, USA
That's funnny. Sometime I wish they would revoke an electrical liciance for too many dumb mistakes like that. Like a drivers liciance & too many tickets. I guess some have the power but I never herd of it happening.

Maybe the equip. grounds are just not terminated yet?

Can they get the panels any closer to each other. Some covers will not fit like that with out over lapping.

Tom

Re: What's Wrong With This Picture? #105701
06/26/05 01:47 PM
06/26/05 01:47 PM
D
dmattox  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 265
Anaheim, CA
I like the chase nipple between panels [Linked Image]

Re: What's Wrong With This Picture? #105702
06/26/05 04:07 PM
06/26/05 04:07 PM
P
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
Quote
Maybe the equip. grounds are just not terminated yet?


Hmm. Yep, looks like you're right. I don't know why I didn't notice that before. [Linked Image]


By the way, is this in Canada? I've just noticed the phase order on the main lugs of the right-hand panel.and the breakers on the left panel.



[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 06-26-2005).]

Re: What's Wrong With This Picture? #105703
06/27/05 05:37 AM
06/27/05 05:37 AM
G
George Corron  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 717
Lorton, Va USA
PLEASE tell me you got temp readings? If there is any HID lighting in this place (and something tells me it's full of it) I'd have to say the temps got high, fast if this was energized.

Re: What's Wrong With This Picture? #105704
06/27/05 07:21 PM
06/27/05 07:21 PM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Paul, you raise an interesting few points.

In the US, the common practice---practice, mind you, not any form of 'code'--- is to mark the feeders in the order Black-Red-Blue.
Likewise, it is also the practice to follow this pattern from the top down for the breakers.

Looking at the breakers, I see black-red-black-blue.....and some yellow farther down.

This suggests that the person who connected these wires had no formal training; that is, had not been taught the 'ground rules." It is in stark contrast to the neat pipework and clean mounting of the panels. I wouldn't be surprised if we're seeing the work of two different guys.

I'd also like to see just how much induction heating occurs here.

Re: What's Wrong With This Picture? #105705
06/27/05 08:03 PM
06/27/05 08:03 PM
L
luckyshadow  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 315
Maryland USA
I think the yellow you are seeing is yellow wirenuts !

Re: What's Wrong With This Picture? #105706
06/29/05 12:55 AM
06/29/05 12:55 AM
T
techie  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 246
palo alto, ca usa
I agree on the yellow wirenuts..

I'm not sure if that top black is a conductor, or a uncut ty-wrap.. If you look closely at the breakers, it's hard to tell if the top breaker is really a breaker, or just black plastic trim.. compare with the trim in the right panel..

note the absence of writing on the top "breaker".. if you assume that the top black "wire" isn't a conductor, the rest of the colors match up with the phase order in the right panel..
red, black, blue, red, black, blue, etc..

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