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#105207 - 07/12/04 06:03 PM Was this encasement really necessary?  
Joe Tedesco  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
Was this encasement really necessary?

[Linked Image]


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#105208 - 07/12/04 06:16 PM Re: Was this encasement really necessary?  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
IMO overkill for this short distance, but given the wording of the NEC I believe the inspector can require this.

I have done this to get about 40' to 60' inside of buildings.

Bob

FWIW I hope there are some dowels into the foundation to carry the weight of this. [Linked Image]


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#105209 - 07/12/04 08:24 PM Re: Was this encasement really necessary?  
electure  Offline


Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,262
Fullerton, CA USA
Does this make it "outside the building"?


#105210 - 07/12/04 08:56 PM Re: Was this encasement really necessary?  
electricman2  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 269
Thomasville, NC USA
Looks like it meets 230.6(2)from here. Cant tell if it is 2" all the way around though.


John

#105211 - 07/12/04 10:34 PM Re: Was this encasement really necessary?  
PCBelarge  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 681
Dobbs Ferry, NY, USA
Picture a 15 inch soffit overhang for the roof of a house. Now picture the RMC raceway for a mast run up the side of the house and throught the soffit and in the void up through the roof. There was about 15 inches of RMC in the space. The inspector made the contractor incase that portion in 2 inches of concrete, as he said it was inside the house....HMMMM

Pierre


Pierre Belarge

#105212 - 07/12/04 11:40 PM Re: Was this encasement really necessary?  
e57  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
S.F.,CA USA
Now picture this... A guy shows up to do demo for a remodel. Sees a 6"X6" concrete column (somewhere outside of this panel room) and thinks to himself... Well it's non-structural, what's it for... Jackhammer, or Diamond saw? Boom!

If it were just the conduit, they would call an Electrician, right?

Just so happens, I had to call the Inspector for 230.70A today, we get a different answer everytime! Today, they said they'll get back to me... I have a job where we'll need to go 38' into the building.


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

#105213 - 07/13/04 06:16 PM Re: Was this encasement really necessary?  
Electricmanscott  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
The picture also seems to me to be overkill. Is this the only portion in the building? Is the other side of that wall outdoors or another part of the building that the pipe goes through?
E57 I don't see how there could even be a question for 38' inside the building.


#105214 - 07/14/04 02:35 AM Re: Was this encasement really necessary?  
e57  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
S.F.,CA USA
No other place to enter building, no other place for service, 38' to get there... (22' back 16' down, all service drops)

Cusomer is building the Taj Mahal, no kidding turrets and onion domes. Boss wants exposed, customer is taking a hissy fit about a 2" pipe running all over his palace. We'll let the inspector make the call...

230.70A is left pretty much up to the inspector.

Personal thought its that it needs to be clarified!

In the past they've OK'ed it! Sometimes they don't... I'm still pushing for under-ground from the pole. But PG&E takes about 18 months to connect! The Inspector hasn't called me back yet. Let you know what he says...

[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 07-14-2004).]


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

#105215 - 07/14/04 04:51 AM Re: Was this encasement really necessary?  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
E, I can not imagine going 38' into the building without encasement. There is no chance that would be allowed here.

As far as demo guys cutting into it that can always be a problem.

I had to help repair a 4" conduit that was cut by a concrete saw, it was one of eight sets of 600 kcmils that feed a 3000 amp 480 switch gear.

The operator of the saw was OK but it knocked out a neighborhood.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#105216 - 07/14/04 11:41 AM Re: Was this encasement really necessary?  
SolarPowered  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 625
Palo Alto, CA, USA
Dumb question from someone not privy to the sausage-making, err, code-making process: What's the point of the encasement? I can't see how RMC by itself would be measurably less safe than RMC encased in concrete. In theory, sure, anything in 2" of concrete is more protected than the same thing without the concrete. But, in practice, RMC is practically indestructible, absent a structural collapse or vehicle impact.


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