I realy do not know how they expect this to sell washing machines.

Indisit gone cookoo

I like movie 3 (makes me think of Trumpy)
and movie 6 cos im a wild child at heart

does the cuckoo come over to load and fold the clothes too? , BTW, there's a "sports" cycle on washing machines over there???

the third one is great.

OK Kenny how does that make you think of me?.
I hunt ducks and deer, but how does that work?.

One thing about washing machines, they are never mentioned here in this area, although a LOT of Electricians here in NZ are required to be able to repair them.
When I did my time as an Electrician, it was required that you learn how a modern washing machine works.
I really "lost my rag" one day with a woman whose son came in and was sure that I hadn't fixed the machine properly.
Finally the son did the damage, and using a non-insulated screwdriver burned out the control board.
Washing machines here these days use a 6-phase DC drive, although the water pump is still an AC Shaded Pole motor.
Son had the thing plugged in when he was "working" on it, I told the lady, sorry maam no warranty, tell your son to keep his hands to himself.
The son was oddly enough 32.

Mike

Now you have got me thinking “6-phase DC motor” Got any photos?
How do you get 6-phases DC? Last time I worked on a DC motor it was in the power station driving the water pumps and they were big xxxxxxxxx

Washing machines here tend to be driven by universal motors. Usually the carbon brushes go after 4-5 years. However the best motor I have seen is those on the LG machines, single phase, brush-less and direct drive so no belt less shake. But I got one in that the bearings leaked so water got into the guts of the motor. Expensive machine = expensive motor so it was written off. Actually still have the motor in the workshop will get some photos taken next week for you to post here for me.

If you like I could post some funny stories collected from the whitegood’s trade

We had to replace our 7 year old Zanussi 2 weeks back when the drum bearing went west. It's in the shop waiting for me to get the panels off and have a go at a repair, which the local trade guy assured me was possible. [ Repair by him was more cost than a new machine.] We got a Bosch. Dunno what sort of motor, but it sounds like a gas turbine, so I guess it's not induction.

Anyway, Ken, fire away on the white goods stuff. Just packed in smoking [5 days ago], after 45 years. Please, ANYTHING to take my mind off tobacco!!!

Washing machines in North Am are usually split phase or shaded pole single phase 120 volt motors. Some are capacitor start with a start and run winding.
I am wondering what a 6 phase DC motor is. Could it be a 6 pole DC motor? Why DC? Why would anyone put a motor with brushes in a washing machine? Motors with brushes and commutators are usually series wound AC or Dc motors like in power tools Some work AC,DC and would be a universal series wound motor.

Yes Kenbo, I have a motor from a Gentle Annie, Fisher and Paykel, washing machine in parts in the boot of my car.

I will take a couple of pics and will post them today.

Here they are, thanks to digital photography and photobucket.

The 42 pole motor is wound for 3 phases with a starpoint as clearly visible.

The outer circle has 14 very strong magnets.
I know because i broke nearly my finger when the magnets "sucked" the armature in. Not today, but the day i took it out of a discarded washing machine.

https://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o298/RODALCO/42PolemotorFP2.jpg

https://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o298/RODALCO/42PolemotorFP.jpg

https://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o298/RODALCO/DSC02553.jpg

Kind regards, Raymond

Ray

That is the same motor I have from the LG machine in my shop.

It sure looks three phase. Though how many houses have a three-phase supply?
Here domestic supply is only single phase. So if we input supply on the outer two connections we would get full spin speed and to get half spin speed we would put our supply across one outer connection and the inner connection.

The motor in my shop, leaked water onto the circuit board in your photo the resultant short, charred the insulation on the poles near it. I was thinking of trying to repair the motor and turn it into a generator.

You are probably right when you say it is a 6-pole machine. That makes more sense to me anyway

I have found the difference between US machines and European machines is that the US consumer prefers top loaders where as Europeans prefer side-loading machines. It takes more initial effort to start side loaders than top loaders so you can get away with lighter motors in top loaders. The universal motor (the one with the brushes) has a higher stating torque than an induction motor.

DC motors run more efficiently than AC motors. Due to losses in power becouse AC changes frequency. Where as DC does not change frequency from + to - there is no losses.
Imagine the sine wave of both AC and DC voltage. Now take the AC sine wave and flick the bottom half up so you have a series of peaks and troughs in a row. Because AC takes time to go from the 0 up to max voltage and back to 0 we loose some useful power. To work out how much we have lost we multiply our peak voltage by 0.707 this now gives us our useful AC voltage (known as RMS)

Try this

300Watts @ 120 volts = 2.5 Amps
300Watts @ (120 volts x 0.707) =?
Therefore 300Watts @ 84.84 Volts = 3.5 Amps

So you can see (I hope) that when using AC power we need to draw more current to do the same work as DC power. Higher current means what class?

Kenbo,

This motor is from a 1 Ø washing machine.

In it is a complicated AC/DC/3Ø driver circuit which drives the motor forward and reversed.

It also provides a higher frequency to drive the drum at the very high speed required for the spinning stages of the washing programme.

I see if i can find the driver board somewhere in my very untidy workshop and will post a photo later, not today but in the next week or so.

Cheers
Raymond RF.

Well i have a similar idea to use that motor for a experimental wind alternator.

It is more in the "things to do one day but" not enough time stage at the moment.

The magnets are very powerfull !!

Ray

I would appreciate that. (Rest of my machine bined or I would have gone and looked)I have only ever come across this type of motor recently.

I know you can change the speed by the formula. RPM = (120 x Frequency) / Poles

So I just assumed that by changing the number of poles you change the speed. I did not think about changing the frequency.

Just goes to show you learn something new every day.

Hi Kenbo,

I found those parts and some photo links are attached thanks to Photobucket again.

In detail is visible a standard 230 Volts SMPS.
On the Watercooled heatsink there are 10 power devices.
The 6 powerdrivers on the RHS are for the 3Ø conversion from the DC bus. referred to as HVDC link at the back of the cct board.
From the other 4, two are voltage regulators, two I'm not too sure, could be the driver transistor for the brake resistor which is also mounted atop of the watercooled heatsink, connected to the yellow and orange wires.

On the board is also referred to 110 Volts supply by changing links so the option for the USA is available too.

As electronics is prone to corrosion, certainly in damp and soapy washing machines, some corrosion traces are visible at the rear side of the cct board.

https://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o298/RODALCO/DSC02569.jpg

https://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o298/RODALCO/DSC02571.jpg

https://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o298/RODALCO/DSC02570.jpg

https://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o298/RODALCO/CCTboardFP2573.jpg

Regards, Raymond

I know this posting has gone a bit off topic but I am enjoying the exchange of information.

The use of induction motors in washingmachines is not common here in the UK

I asked the experts at UK Whitegoods about speed control and this is the answer I got. intresting

Ray

Looked at my motor today and though the same configuration as yours it is not exactly the same. I will get some photos and post them (forgot to take them today)
Hope to pick up an old exercise bike that was getting scraped tomorrow so starting to get things together.

I will make a photo journal of the generators construction.

Singed up for photobucket yesterday

Ray, I think that motor would make an excellent generator for a wind machine. About two years ago I was in contact with an English retired Engineer in Bordeaux, France, on this very subject. The multipoles and the permanent magnets are almost exactly how he envisaged the ideal wind type generator- self exiting, slow speed, flat voltage curves after rectification. Now you need a prop, some slip rings to fetch power down the pole and a device to shut her down in high winds, plus your voltage control and storage. There's a wealth of DYI stuff on the web on this subject, so don't re-invent the wheel. Go for it!

Better to rotate the magnets and keep the coils stationary.

Why?

Alan
The machine this motor was taken from was designed that way.

The stator bolts onto the outer plastic drum of the washing machine and the magnets are housed on a casing, which completely surrounds the stator but is attached to the spindle of the inner drum.
Basically a motor built in reverse to what we normally consider

So does that mean the machine avoids the "large wheel on the back of the drum and thus the shaft seal?
i.e. Drum's entirely driven by magnetic induction?

The stator does not move here.

The actual rotation is on the outside dark grey ring with the magnets in it.

The 3 phase coils are controlled via the controlboard to give forward and reverse rotation as well as a smooth acceleration and decelleration for fast spinning.
These are fixed to the machine via the 4 bolt holes in the middle.

In German we call this an "Aussenlaufmotor"
which
Translates in outside running motor.

Good stuff Ray,
Look, the actual bits that you see make up a crude sort of a stepper motor.
That is why it uses 2 artificial phases to power the rotor.
The main reasoning behind this configuration is for the agitate cycle, where this used to be performed mechanically with a ratchet and gearing system.
As I stated before, the pump motor is seperate to the drive motor, often being a shaded pole motor, these have very little torque and are often direct drive as opposed to driving a belt.
As they have a tendency to stall under any heavy load.

djk
If you look in my post titled "Project" you will see clearly the two parts of this motor. On the outer casing holding the pernament mags you will see where it attaches onto the shaft of the inner-drum. So sealed bearings are still needed. As you will notice in my sample the water marks show that the bearings have leaked.
Unlike our conventional machines where a slight leaks might get noticed and repaired a leak here proves fatal to the machine.

LG advertise these machines as "Direct drive" (as opposed to belt driven machines)silent whith little vibration. Infact I think they used to show them on full spin with a coin ballance on edcge on the top of the machine.

It's better to rotate the magnets and keep the coils stationary in an alternator because then you don't need slip rings and brushes.

There is inorganic rubbish at the moment in our suburb.
I see if i can score one complete washing machine with this drive to show the actual lay out.
If not we have to wait a little longer but these are regularly been dumped on the side of the road with all workings still in it.

Raymond