Just for your browsing:
http://www.esb.ie/esbnetworks/downloads/safe_use_of_electricity.pdf

That's our home (domestic) electricial safety guidelines.

One bit of poor graphic design though which looks like a guy drilling a hole right beside a socket outlet.

It still makes reference to schuko plugs.

[This message has been edited by djk (edited 08-04-2006).]

I think they might have a hard time convincing people not to do that. Just about everybody uses kitchen foil in the pan at some time or other (myself included).



Do you think that eventually both the R.o.I. and the U.K. will have to relent on this issue?


Unearthed light fittings are pretty common here where somebody has put up a new fixture onto a pre-1966 lighting circuit which has no earth.

I'm guessing they'll eventually have to allow it. New regs came into force here that are requiring all electrial gear in bathrooms, including lighting, to be RCD protected.

It also seems to have paved the way for sockets... although, seemingly we still have them banned for the timebeing.

Dave,
I'm surprised that the UK and Ireland haven't progressed like the Down-Under countries.
It has been legal here to install socket-outlets with an internal RCD or the option of a switch-board mounted RCD unit for some yearsespecially for lighting circuits in bathrooms.
Since 2000, the latter option is the only one that complies.
Paul,
And what live terminals would that be?
I've repaired a million ovens over the years and I have yet to see some bare live terminals within an oven.
Sure if you were really careless and had foil sticking up all over the place, it could touch the element, which should be at Earth potential.
A lot of the people that write these things just use scare-tactics to warn people.
It is niether effective nor helpful.

I just checked my Neff grill, and you are quite right Mike, there are no live terminals that foil could touch, the elementS terminate in a blanking plate screwed to the oven wall and [presumably] earthed. Are all ovens the same though? Don't forget we have got 'cheap and cheerless' Chinese goods to consider now.
This site is, generally, a very good attempt at making the public aware of electrical hazards, minor criticisms aside, and I found it quite absorbing. Even the 'drill' pic shows the use of a discrete RCD in conjunction, so the worst that could happen is cable damage in the wall, [or is that wooly thinking on my part?]
My 'critique' would be those fireguard pics which are unclear. These should be fixed to the wall in some way to prevent kids pulling them over or crawling round behind them. Surprising how fast tots can find a weak spot in things like this. A moments distraction by a carer and they can get hurt.

Alan

The live terminals of an oven are in the back compartment away from the cooking area. Theres no way foil from the cooking area could touch live terminals. At worst the foil can touch the earthed sheath of an element.

Keep in mind that they may have considered old ovens. It wouldn't surprise me if 1950's ovens had live parts inside.

[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 08-07-2006).]

Look,
All a modern cooking element is, is a MIMS cable except it has a Cuprothal element running through the centre of it.
The outer sheath is always at Earth potential for safety reasons.
The same goes for a kettle element, only difference is, a kettle element is nickel-plated.
C-H,
Having live parts inside an oven that early in the sales of appliances would have killed that brand, considering there were no self-cleaning ovens back then.
Most were cleaned by hand at that stage, with a wet cloth.

That's what I had in mind. The only time I've ever seen live terminals (even on a 50-year-old stove) which could be touched by foil was when one of the cover plates was missing, either the one over the end of the grill element or one over the end of the rings on the hob above.

Some of the old portable heating rings with a wire element set in a ceramic base had touchable live parts, both the element itself and the screws at the end, but they were recessed down below the top surface, and that's not the sort of thing you'd be covering with foil anyway.

RCDs have been mandatory on socket outlets here since 1980, however it doesn't mean that every house has been rewired since 1980. Many people would have had them optionally installed in the 1970s too, but they weren't compulsary.

However, that being said, it's still not a bad thing to mention the plug-in variety as there are still some installations that predate RCDs.

As for bathrooms, there was no requirement to do anything with lighting except for it to meet certain IP requirements to prevent water ingress and not to be located anywhere near the bath/shower. Also, light switches etc have to go outside or be operated by a pull cord. Basically, you had to design the bathroom in such a way that no electrical gear could be contacted while standing in the bath/shower etc.

The new regulations requring RCD protection on all circuits (lights, fans etc) in bathrooms takes into account the fact that there are fancier light fittings, more over the sink lighting that doesn't simply mean an ugly plastic shaver socket/light, electrically heated towel rails etc etc.

As for putting foil on the grill .. yeah that is a little stupid in my opinion. I have never seen a grill with exposed terminals, in fact, as far as I'm aware having a design like that would violate all of our electrical safety standards. It certainly wouldn't be CE complient.

The major risk with a grill pan covered in foil is fire, not electrocution. There's a serious risk that the grease on the foil can either start smoking very heavily or go up into flames, particularly if you're cooking something rather greasy.

I don't understand why some of these safety edicts continue to persist. Perhaps it was relevant in 1927

A more useful message would be please don't stick forks/knives down your toaster's slots!

In Ireland, according to the ETCI safety stats, almost all electrocutions (and there aren't very many) were caused by direct contact with overhead cables or PoCo plant. Most of which occured on farms or construction sites. Accidents involving domestic appliances or wiring seem to be pretty rare. Where accidents have happened in the home, they seem to be mostly due to faulty DIY wiring rather than actual misuse of appliances.
http://www.etci.ie/fatalfacts/index.php?Page=1
(details all electrical fatalities in Ireland over the past few years)

In a population of 4.2 million it's a pretty unlikely way to meet your end to be quite honest.

The only one that comes under the misuse category is where a kid put a nail into the socket of an extension reel. Clearly it either had damaged shuttering / he bypassed the shuttering.

[This message has been edited by djk (edited 08-07-2006).]

We still use gas, it's much cheaper than electricity.

(Tho we too have many underground hot water, we buy gas from Putin.)

Do the Irish regs. actually ban regular wall switches from the bathroom entirely, or just require any such devices to be placed out of reach of the tub/shower?

Many people in the U.K. (including some who should know better) are under the impression that the I.E.E. regs. state that all light switches in a bathroom must be the pullcord type. That's never been the case; the old "6 ft. rule" simply required that wall switches be placed so as to be out of reach from the bath/shower.


They're pretty much the same arguments we've been seeing against Part P here. The number of electrocutions in the U.K. is down to well under 50 per year, and the majority of those are caused by contact with overhead HV lines, industrial wiring, and so on. Of the small number of domestic fatalities left, many are then faulty appliances. That leaves a tiny number which are caused by faulty wiring which is in any way covered by Part P.

You can't guard against sheer stupidity anyway. Back in the mid-1980s two young men were electrocuted in the village where I lived while trying to take down a C.B. antenna. There was 18 ft. of vertical antenna atop a 20 ft. steel mast and the idiots tried to take it down in one piece, balanced up a ladder in a tree, by lifting the whole lot above their heads.

All the current safety precautions in the book wouldn't have stopped "dumb & dumber" from getting killed.

That's one thing I haven't seen in a house in years here, the humble old pull-cord switch.
In almost every bedroom you used to see a pull-cord switch on the inside of the door or over where they thought the bed should be (on a 2-way with the door switch).
You can still get them here, but I don't think anyone installs them anymore.

A good many older houses here had a pullcord over (roughly) where the bed would normally go as well, often on a 2-way circuit with the wall switch at the door.

As well as pull-cords there were also 1- and 2-way switches designed to be installed on the end of a drop cord (not for bathroom use, naturally). Various styles were made, including rocker switches and a "pushbar" switch, similar to the type of switch found on lampholders.

pull cords here seemed to die out in the 1970s sometime, other than for electric showers.

Generally, the switches are just located outside the bathroom door.

Also, our new regs now require the switches for the immersion to be located flush on the wall outside it.

Yeah, don't put foil in your toaster...