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Posted By: RODALCO FUSES - 01/03/06 10:04 AM
Why don't we seem to have a standard colour coding for standard type fuses? [Linked Image]

This applies especially for New Zealand but I have no doubt that other countries have similar issues.

I find it quite often a pain when for example HRC fuses ( 2 to 40 Amps ) all have the same colours printed or labelled on them.
The same applies to the bigger sizes too and also the actual AMPERAGE is written on it too small while all the other info is usually printed on too big. [Linked Image]

and to say I have excellent eyesight. [Linked Image]

The older NZI plug in MCB's at least are colour coded.
White 6 amps
Grey 10 amps
Blue 15 amps
Yellow 20 amps
Black 27 amps
Red 30 / 32 amps [Linked Image]

I personally find colour coding a lot more effective than applying all the same colour.

The older European diazed weber style fuses had a similar colour coding and an indicator which popped out behind a little glass window if a fuse had failed.
DII style: Green 6A, Red 10A, Grey 16A, Blue 20A, Yellow 25A.
DIII style: Black 35A, White 50A, orangegold 63A. etc.
[Linked Image] [Linked Image]
These were the values I most dealt with while above 63 A mostly DIN style fuses were used.
See what your opinions are.

Cheers

Ray.
Posted By: pauluk Re: FUSES - 01/03/06 12:22 PM
Quote
The older NZI plug in MCB's at least are colour coded.

White 6 amps
Grey 10 amps
Blue 15 amps
Yellow 20 amps
Black 27 amps
Red 30 / 32 amps

That's the same color code as used here, with the exception of 27A, which I've never seen before. Is that a peculiarly Aus/NZ rating? [Linked Image]

In fact white 5A, blue 15A, yellow 20A, and red 30A goes back to the old BS1361 cartridge fuses as well.

Some systems have changed over time though. Our BS1362 fuses (the 1-inch long types used in BS1363 13-amp plugs) are such an example. Today, the 3A fuse is color-coded red, but in the original system 3A was blue.




[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 01-03-2006).]
Posted By: Trumpy Re: FUSES - 01/03/06 01:08 PM
Paul,
Ray is correct about the 27A MCB's.
They were a predecessor of the now common 25A protection.
And yes the 25A MCB has the black marking on it too. [Linked Image]
Ray with the majority of the HRC fuselinks I've seen here, the amperage is stamped on the top of the tinned copper landing, big or small.
Posted By: RODALCO Re: FUSES - 01/04/06 04:24 AM
Quote
That's the same color code as used here, with the exception of 27A, which I've never seen before. Is that a peculiarly Aus/NZ rating?

Pauluk: this 27 Amps MCB was used for the 4mm² or imperial equivalent wiring for short runs to ranges. ( now these days superseaded with 6 mm² and 30A or 32A MCB's).

4mm² is now protected with a 25 Amps MCB.

Trumpy: That is great depending on which brand of fuses the beancounters buy. Here in Auckland we have MEM for 32 A or less which have unfortunately small numbers and same colour coded labels.
I know what you mean with the current stampings which you see on NZI and GEC type fuses.
The Lawson fuses are very well marked with large numbers on the fusebody.

The worst is always when you have some fuses which have been in the truck for a while and the markings have worn off. Then you can't beat the stamped ampere values.

4mm² is now protected with 25 A MCB.
Posted By: briselec Re: FUSES - 01/04/06 08:36 AM
I like the idea of colour coded fuses but I don't like Clipsal's colour coded toggles on their MCBs. I think it's better having only the main switch a different colour, making it easily identifiable. Of course that doesn't make it obvious that you also need to turn off the hot water MCB to kill everything. I've always thought there should be a rule requiring a double pole main switch on domestic boards to cover both tariffs.
Posted By: Trumpy Re: FUSES - 01/04/06 09:21 AM
briselec,
Darned good points mate!. [Linked Image]
Quote
I think it's better having only the main switch a different colour, making it easily identifiable.
Yeah I agree, I've always gone along with the idea that the Main Switch on or in a switch-board should have a red toggle on it and no other colour.
All other MCB toggles should be one single contrasting colour.
Quote
I've always thought there should be a rule requiring a double pole main switch on domestic boards to cover both tariffs.
Over here until the advent of DIN Rail switchboards, the surface-mounted main switch was always a 2-pole type that de-energised the Hot water circuit as well as the main phase, when the main switch was opened.
Having said that I've never seen a seperate isolator in a DIN Rail board for the HWS, just it's MCB.

{Message edited for spelling} [Linked Image]


[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 01-04-2006).]
Posted By: pauluk Re: FUSES - 01/04/06 11:04 AM
The Wylex plug-in breakers here (which can be used to replace rewireable or cartridge fuses on the older "Standard" range of Wylex panels) use color-coded handles (colors as listed above, plus green for 40A):

[Linked Image from tlc-direct.co.uk]

Most others are just plain black handles for all ratings though.

Quote
I've always gone along with the idea that the Main Switch on or in a switch-board should have a red toggle on it and no other colour.

You'd like the Wylex NH, GE panels, and a few others current here then. This is the NH:

[Linked Image from tlc-direct.co.uk]
Posted By: RODALCO Re: FUSES - 01/04/06 07:11 PM
I like that? Well marked and colour coded MCB's.
Wish that all manufacturers stuck to that system.
And a main / masterswitch should be red and marked so it is easily recognisable for anyone who has to shut of power with no doubts.
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: FUSES - 01/05/06 12:53 AM
There's a new twist... though i've never seen them for real my text book lists 13A DII links with a black marker... nobody else ever seems to have heard of them, yet they are listed in the book.

You called them Diazed Weber fuses, any idea where that name comes from? I've heard any other name than Diazed before!
Posted By: classicsat Re: FUSES - 01/05/06 07:20 PM
For a while, Schneider Electric has been manufacturing the FPE Stab-Lock breakers with colour coded handles.

You can see the red ones at: https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum5/HTML/001123.html

The black ones were likely made before the coloring scheme.

The colouring scheme matches the colours typical of Edison plug fuses;
Blue=15A
Red=20A
Green=30A
Grey=40A
Above that black handles are used.

AFAIK, the prograssion of the NC stab-loc breakers in Canada:
1970s: Blabc body, square black toggle.
Sometime in the late 70s they had the orange tipped toggles for a while.

In the late 80s, they came out with the white bodies. In the mid 90s, they began colour coding the handles on 40A and less breakers. Late 90s, they switched from the "squared" toggle to a flatter toggle, retaining color coding.
Posted By: kiwi Re: FUSES - 01/06/06 08:19 AM
Trumpy the newer Din Rail boards in NZ may not have a 2 pole main switch because the ripple relay is fed from an MCB in the board via a 2 core cable and then returns to feed the HWC circuit.

The old system had the meter and ripple relay at the switchboard and a 2 pole main switch.

Back then the meter readers had keys to your house ( if Mum was working ) and would let themselves in once a month to read the indoor meter.
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: FUSES - 01/08/06 04:09 PM
Once a month??? Here they come once a year!
They put up a note on the front door or house bulletin board (yes, the wooden kind, most apartment buildings still have that) a few weeks before the reading, stating the date and "between 8 and 11 AM". Then you have to be at home and wait or call for an extra reading at your own expenses. Or you can read it yourself and send the PoCo a postcard.
And in Vienna we have something that doesn't exist any more anywhere else - the gas man! He comes round with a big black wallet and collects the gas and electricity bills - cash. You _can_ pay via bank account, but you don't have to.
Posted By: djk Re: FUSES - 01/09/06 09:08 PM
They've moved from reading every 2 months here to 3 times a year.

If you want your bills more accurate you phone up and dial in the meter reading or submit it online as often as you like.
Posted By: aussie240 Re: FUSES - 01/09/06 10:42 PM
Quote
If you want your bills more accurate you phone up and dial in the meter reading or submit it online as often as you like.

Quote
Or you can read it yourself and send the PoCo a postcard.
Honesty must still exist in some parts of the world for that to work! What's to stop you submitting a lesser number of kwh?
Posted By: classicsat Re: FUSES - 01/10/06 06:30 AM
Here, the meters are read quarterly, the interim months estimated. You can call in readings if you want, for disputr resolution.
Posted By: classicsat Re: FUSES - 01/10/06 06:44 AM
https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000920.html

3rd pic down, the new panel, showing colored FPE breakers,
Posted By: Trumpy Re: FUSES - 01/10/06 08:02 AM
Being a Canterbury supporter myself, I like the idea of Red Isolators and Black MCB toggles.
What more could you want?.
Apart from a picture of Merts or Toddy on the front of the switch-board, of course. [Linked Image]
Posted By: pauluk Re: FUSES - 01/10/06 02:43 PM
Ah... Those colored FPE breakers in that other thread make sense now. [Linked Image]

On meter reading, it's every 3 months here. In my area though, meter readers only come round every 6 months, and the PoCo just sends an estimated bill on the interim billing periods.

If you miss the reader, he just leaves a card and you can write in the readings yourself and leave it for him to see when he comes back in a day or two, or you can phone in the readings (it's all computerized now -- You just use a TouchTone phone to enter your account number and the readings). You can phone in the actual readings upon receipt of an estimated bill if you wish, too.

Quote
What's to stop you submitting a lesser number of kwh?

Absolutely nothing, although they would probably query the readings if they seemed very low. People calling in their own readings will sometimes reduce them a little on the heavy winter bill and then "make it up" on a spring bill.

I don't think my meter has actually been read by the PoCo for at least 2 years.

In newer services where the meter is outside in a cabinet, obviously the reader can always get there. In some areas they're now using telemetry, so the reader just has to drive slowly along the street and pick up the readings.
Posted By: yaktx Re: FUSES - 01/11/06 05:16 AM
Quote
The colouring scheme matches the colours typical of Edison plug fuses;
Blue=15A
Red=20A
Green=30A
Grey=40A
Above that black handles are used.

If you have found a 40A Edison plug fuse, I want it for my collection. [Linked Image]

Blue, red, and green are correct, and several breaker manufacturers have used these colors for their handles. I'm remembering Bryant before their breaker business was bought by Cutler-Hammer.
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: FUSES - 01/11/06 07:46 PM
On our last renovation we moved both electrical meters out to the common hallway so they're accessible to the reader. The gas meter is still inside though, so it's not really an advantage. We just didn't care for completely replumbing everything... which would be required for a meter relocation. (Old gas pipes are left alone, but as soon as any change of adding or removing more than 50cm of pipe is done everything has to be brought up to current standards, which means replacement of our original 1913 pipework...)
Posted By: Trumpy Re: FUSES - 01/12/06 06:12 AM
Ray,
Just a quick question.
How many times would you climb a pole ladder to access LV pole fuses,within a given week?.
Wether it be from Faults or Disconnections?.
Same side of the coin, who does your disconnections up there, is that a Faultsmans task?.
Just wondering mate. [Linked Image]

{Message edited to add last part of a sentence}

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 01-12-2006).]
Posted By: RODALCO Re: FUSES - 01/12/06 07:25 AM
Trumpy, hi mate

Quote
How many times would you climb a pole ladder to access LV pole fuses,within a given week?.
Wether it be from Faults or Disconnections?.

About once a month or less. We have the so called Rapid Response Teams. These faultmen doing dedicated faultwork 24 hours a day. I occassionaly access a streetlight contactor but usually get the RRT to give me a hand.

I used to do dis / reconnects for vacant properties or temp. isolation for an awkward meter change when we did metering in the United Networks days.
Most faults I deal with are underground faults and they are usually already isolated at the pole fuse by the faultmen.
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