ECN Forum
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Quelle Simonetta record player - 04/19/04 02:42 PM
Yesterday I salvaged an old Quelle Simonetta portable record player from being dumped. First thing it gave me a nasty shock when I tried to run it at the flea market.
When I opened things looked even worse. The fuse clips are covered in greenish-blue gunk, the 100mA fuse is probably gone and the entire plastic fuse holder as well as the metal clips have literally been blown apart. The 220V section shows obvious traces of real bad soldering, the wire that leads to the fuse even has the insulation melted away in one spot, even the case got it's share. Apart from that everything electronic (only one small circuit board) looks fine. The motor is even a Lenco.
Besides the stylus is missing.
I'm going to take some photos today then I'll post them.
Posted By: pauluk Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 04/20/04 08:31 AM
"Good on ya" for salvaging it. I hate to see good old equipment go to the dump.

Hope you can get it working, and looking forward to seeing the pics. [Linked Image]
Posted By: pauluk Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 04/22/04 08:16 PM
Posted for Texas Ranger:
Quote
And finally the long promised pics of the Quelle Simonetta record player.

Pics #1 and 2 are top and bottom overviews. Pic #3 shows the 230V connector and the fuse holder. One of the metal clips is already missing and the red wire has solder marks on it that don't belong there. As you can see on pic 4 there are some parts missing...

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]



[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 04-22-2004).]
Posted By: Hutch Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 04/23/04 12:10 AM
From its name, this sounds French - is it? As a youngster back in 1973 I was sent on an exchange visit with a French family known to my parents in the Amiens area to improve my abysmal schoolboy French. The visit taught me my most useful phrase in French that they never taught you at school – “puis j’avoir ...” “can I have …”. Simply substitute one’s desires or just point (plus an s.v.p.) and constructive communication has been established [Linked Image] – anyway, I digress.

It was on this trip that I was attempting to play a French record on a French record player. I picked up the record arm and before I could place it on the record my finger touched some metal parts under it and I received a fair old electric shock. [Linked Image] It was not as bad as subsequent 240V ones received in the UK and I have (since learning such European subtleties on this board) wondered if it was a 127V to ground jolt.

Was mains voltage common at the styli of French, or for that matter, any record players?


[This message has been edited by Hutch (edited 04-22-2004).]
Posted By: pauluk Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 04/23/04 10:02 AM
There were several brands of these cheap little players aimed at kids in the 60s and 70s here. I have magazines with ads for the "Starr Kinder 45", which from the name I assume was imported from Germany, and as the name implies, was designed solely for playing 7" 45 rpm records.

The slightly more upmarket versions of the time came in a vanity-style case, about 16" wide, with full 4-speed deck.

I don't ever recall seeing a design where the pickup connections could have mains potential on them, but knowing French wiring..... [Linked Image]

Quelle surprise! [Linked Image]
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 04/23/04 11:34 AM
With the a at the end the name sounds Italian rather than French. Quelle is a large mail-order store, and the Simonetta line consisted solely of rebranded stuff from nameless or sometimes well-known manufacturers. Most of the radios for example were made by the Austrian HEA company, but some others were Philips.
This model even has the main switch on the 9V secondary side of the transformer. It's a cobined 33/0/45 speed-select/on-off switch that works both as an electrical and mechanical switch.
The motor is made by Lenco, a _very_ well-reputated Swiss record player company, so i'm wondering who actually made that player. Playing a 33rpm disc on it looks really weird since the thing is actually _smaller_ than a standard LP. The thing you put the record on is only 15cm in diameter.
Posted By: pauluk Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 04/23/04 11:10 PM
Even a 7" would overlap that by about a half inch all round!

By the way, do you still call them 7, 10 and 12-inch records in Austria, or do you translate that to the nearest round number of centimeters in general speech?

Lenco is certainly very highly respected. I've had several Goldring-Lenco turntables over the years, and still have a couple of GL-75s. Made in Switzerland, with a very heavy turntable and excellent overall engineering.
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 04/24/04 10:08 AM
17, 25 and 33cm records, but most generally singles and LPs. EPs are IIRC 17cm 33rpm records and Maxi singles are 33cm 45rpm ones. Can't remember any specific names for the 25cm ones and don't have too many of them.

Funky side note that just came to my mind: Late 70ies Ariola-brand LPs were known to squeeze as much music as possible onto a 33cm disc, which makes findinmg the tracks close to imposssible. Also hard to set the track marks when copying such a disc to MD.
Posted By: pauluk Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 04/25/04 08:38 AM
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Can't remember any specific names for the 25cm ones and don't have too many of them.
10" was the standard size for 78 rpm pop "singles," and the 10" LP was very common here in the 1950s -- I have dozens of them. The 10" version of the LP gradually fell out of use in the 1960s.

By the way, on the subject of 7" 45s, American and European discs came with the large (1.5") center hole, but British 45s were supplied with the standard small hole (same size as LP/78). Many pressings came with a center "spider," attached by three or four small links so that it could be pushed out to allow the disc to be used in a jukebox (which used the standard 1.5" fitting like the rest of the world).

There was a market for plastic adapters to allow "converted" ex-jukebox discs to be used on a regular turntable.
Posted By: Trumpy Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 04/25/04 09:24 AM
Now here is a flash-back for you English people!.
My sister had a 78 record that played a song about a "lightning-tree".
It was released in the late 1970's and it accompanied the TV programme here "Black-Beauty", a show about a horse.
Anyone care to comment on this one?. [Linked Image]
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 04/25/04 11:39 AM
Ok, forgot about the 78 discs. Shellacs as we call them. I have some really weird 78 rpm discs. I guess they are 70ies remakes of original ones, made of colored translucent flexible vinyl! Light pink, red, dark green,... Rio Negro, Tango by Juarez, Gellin &Borgström, Harmonica. B-side Tired Hands Waltz by Piantadosi, same musicians. (red disc)
"Go to sleep my little sunchild", Tango band Morello, "Your Mouth says no but your eyes say yes" (green disc)
Srenade by Toselli, orchestra Geza Komor, El Sacristan, Tango band Morello
Paris, tango by F. Canaro, A media luz, same artist (both pink).
Posted By: Trumpy Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 04/25/04 11:57 AM
Wow, Ragnar,
Being an Orchestral Bassist (with the Upright and Bow),I learnt Bass off old records like Mozarts Reqium and the Flight Of the Bumblebee, but when the CD came out, I was blown away by the sound quality of the older stuff, us guys had to play a lot better!. [Linked Image]
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 04/25/04 01:09 PM
Those discs are cool and a real eye-catcher. i got them for free at some flea market. (As you might already have suspected I go to every flea market I know of [Linked Image])
Orchestral Bassist is cool! I just play ordinary guitar, gut and steel. My dad has an old bass he found and restored himself with the help of a cousin who builds instruments. I think they basically rebuilt the beast using some of the original parts.
Posted By: pauluk Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 04/27/04 11:01 AM
There were some kids records (Nursery Rhymes and such like) made here in multi-colored vinyl in the 60s.

Although most people automatically think of 78s as being shellac, in fact some companies in Britain actually pressed vinyl 78s the last few years. The figures here show that "pop" singles sold in roughly equal quantities of 45rpm and 78rpm discs in 1957. By 1960, all the major labels had ceased production of 78s.

Here's a pic to illustrate the unusual push-out center of British 45rpm records:
[Linked Image]

The Decca-owned labels used a triangular center up until around 1959/60:
[Linked Image]
Posted By: SvenNYC Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 04/27/04 04:36 PM
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As you might already have suspected I go to every flea market I know of

Gawd I'm glad I'm not the only one who is so interested in this old stuff. [Linked Image]

Ragnar, keep an eye out for old radios for me, will you? [Linked Image] thanks.
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 04/27/04 06:44 PM
I've got a few freinds who also like old stuff, but most people just think I'm nuts.
Sven: Maybe I'll part with the old Eumigette sitting in my basement. If it has surviived the fflood from our neighbor'S bath tub a few years ago you can have it. The Eumig model Eumigette was a mid-1950ies low-range AM/FM tube radio. I had it in my room for some time, but it worked intermittently, so I put it away. I'll have a closer look at it if I can get through all the other rubbish piled up in front of the shelf (IIRC there are loads of firewood, vintage car tyres, construction jacks, a trampoline,...). 'course the shipping to the US will be pricey.
Posted By: SvenNYC Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 04/29/04 03:12 PM
Sounds cool. Thanks Ragnar. [Linked Image]

Car tyres? In your room or in your basement? [Linked Image]

If you look deeper you might even stumble across the car they belong to....the trick would how do you get it out of there. [Linked Image]
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 04/29/04 03:43 PM
ROFLMAO!
In the basement of course. When my dad gave away his last Puch 500 car (similar to the Fiat 500 for those who are familiar European cars, but with different engine and transmission) in the late 70ies he kept a full set of tyres, and they're still stacked in our basement.
Right now all things are up side down here (we've been practically gutting our hallway) but I'll try to find the basement keys and then I'll have a look at the radio.
I remember I fitted a new cord with molded Euro plug for some reason, most likely the old cord was cut off (my dad found the radio in an attic when helping clear out the house of an old aunt who had passed away).
That house must have been incredible. He says they loaded our Mitsubishi van _full_ of clothes three times (!), and that still wasn't all. A lot of stuff was still in its original packaging, unopened.
Posted By: classicsat Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 04/29/04 04:32 PM
I have an old SeaBreeze player (I think the motor is siezed). It is interesting in that the turntable is free spinning, with a rubber wheel coming up through the chassis to turn the record, and it slides in and out for the two record speeds. It has a valve amplifier that has a 25EH5 valve, which derives the filament supply from a tap on the motor. It has a selenium plate rectifier, and probably a Plessy branded dual capacitor.

Most portable record players sold into the 1970s used pretty well the same 25EH5 amp system. My mother had a Sstereo player that had 50EH5 tubes, whose filaments ran in serial with a ballast resistor from the 110V supply.

[This message has been edited by classicsat (edited 04-29-2004).]
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 04/29/04 05:01 PM
Does the rubber wheel turn the turntable or the record itself? The rubber wheel-turntable arrangement was pretty common.
The Quelle player is full transistor and everything runs off 9V DC.
I still haven't tried running it with batteries, so I could at least determine whether he motor works or not.
Posted By: SvenNYC Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 04/29/04 05:03 PM
Classicsat said:

Quote
I have an old SeaBreeze player (I think the motor is siezed).


A couple of drops of oil could clear that up. Old grease tends to gunk up on these machines. Only solution is to clean thoroughly (WD-40 breaks up old grease) and re-lube with a good quality grease.


Quote
It is interesting in that the turntable is free spinning, with a rubber wheel

Called an idler wheel. Common with record players in those days...especially record changers. Nowadays they're all either belt-drive or direct drive.

Quote
It has a selenium plate rectifier, and probably a Plessy branded dual capacitor.

Replace the selenium rectifier. Those things don't age well and eventually they fail, releasing a real nasty smell in addition to ruining the amp. A silicone diode (400 PIV) is a good substitute.

Ditto, wax-paper covered foil and electrolytic capacitors should be replaced.

If you're familair with Use-Net, visit rec.antiques.radio+phono where radio & recordplayer collectors hang out. They might be able to help you out more.
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 04/29/04 05:07 PM
Quote
wax-paper covered foil capacitors

Hehe... about half a year we learnt how to calculate the capacity of such a beast by the size of the foil and the dielectric constant of the paper [Linked Image]
Seems like they're still used in textbooks...
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 04/29/04 05:09 PM
BTW Sven, I sent you an e-mail regarding the radio.
Posted By: pauluk Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 04/29/04 05:36 PM
Quote
Called an idler wheel. Common with record players in those days...especially record changers. Nowadays they're all either belt-drive or direct drive.
Idler drive was pretty much universal for the lower-end decks then, and still used in many high-quality transcription turntables of the time (e.g. Garrard 301/401).

The most usual arrangement was for a horizontal idler wheel (i.e. vertical axis of rotation) and a stepped motor pulley, the idler being moved up and down to select the speed, but a horizontal motor shaft and vertical idler were used in some models. Several Goldring-Lenco decks used the latter arrangement, with a conical motor shaft to provide fully variable speeds.

Quote
It has a valve amplifier that has a 25EH5 valve, which derives the filament supply from a tap on the motor.
I've seen the tapped motor winding to provide filament power on a few models, but the majority of the British players used a transformer anyway and ran the filaments from a separate 6.3V secondary winding.

The most common single-tube design of the era used an EL84, which in combination with the high output of a crystal cartridge provided adequate gain. Selenium rectifiers were found sometimes, or the ubiquitous EZ80 rectifier tube.

Those wax-paper capacitors tend to get leaky after 40 years or more, and in designs where they're used to couple from one stage to the next, the result is a positive bias on the grid and distortion. In severe cases it can result in over-dissipation of the tube.




[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 04-29-2004).]
Posted By: SvenNYC Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 04/29/04 05:40 PM
Texas-Ranger said:

Quote
BTW Sven, I sent you an e-mail regarding the radio.

Damn. I just ran through my email box killing the spam and realized after it was too late that I had deleted your email right along with everything else. [Linked Image]

can you resend when you get a chance? thanks [Linked Image]
Posted By: classicsat Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 05/01/04 04:13 PM
The rubber wheel actually turned the record directly.
Most of the record players from the later 1950s into the 1980s were changer types that hade a horizontal idler, that mated between the turntable and the motor shaft, usually stepped.

The past 20 years or more though used speed regulated DC motors, which electrically changed speeds.
Posted By: pauluk Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 05/02/04 12:47 PM
I've never seen a deck where the idler actually contacts and turns the record directly. Presumably there is only a very small turntable around the central bearing, perhaps just a little larger than the label?

Servo-controlled DC motors with direct drive have taken the place of a heavy flywheel-like turntable as you say. But to be honest, I'm not at all impressed with the turntables which have appeared in the modern units in recent years. With renewed interest in records I've noticed several manufacturers included a turntable in their mini-stack systems, but the deck is just a flimsy, cheap plastic joke.
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 05/10/05 05:13 PM
Just found this old thread again.
I have a small Japanese portable record player (there should be pictures somewhere on the board) that also has the direct idler wheel to disc drive.
Still haven't gotten to fix the Simonetta beast... just stored it away.
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 05/10/05 05:16 PM
Damn that beast stinks! Like deteriorated plastic or something. Just took it out of the closet after probably a ear of storage.
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 05/10/05 07:57 PM
Obviously the fuse wasn't the only faulty part. New fuse - nothing. Next thing I'm gonna check is the connections at the mains connector, feels pretty loose.

Might as well be more shot, it still has a selene rectifier! Sadly I don't have any meters right now, my DMM is shot. Somewhat limits my possibilities of fault-finding.
Posted By: djk Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 05/10/05 09:46 PM
Hutch,

By 1972 it would have been 220V. Perhaps you were standing on an insulated floor or perhaps you got a lower voltage shock ?

Is there any chance it was a big static or capacitor discharge or perhaps it was being fed via a stepdown transformer of some sort.

Btw, static shocks are far more common and far worse during long dry french summers than anything you'll ever get in the UK or Ireland.. Humidity plays a big role in it.

I've had a couple of really nasty jolts in France and the US the likes of which I've never experienced here!
Posted By: Alan Belson Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 05/10/05 10:38 PM
Well I never, Craig Douglas as ever was, the Singing Milkman! -that's got to be forty three years ago at least, before the Beatles anyway.

As to French 'shocks', electricity pales into insignificance compared with the shock of experiencing your first genuine, mature French 'pissoir', { edit } "Zey are only used by zer tourists! Ha!Ha! That will teach you for making lumpy custard!"
Alan

{ Sorry Alan, I think that might have been getting a little too graphic for ECN. }



[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 05-11-2005).]
Posted By: djk Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 05/10/05 11:38 PM
Alan,

I think you haven't been in France (or at least a French public toilet) for quite a long time. Those toilets have pretty much disappeared completely replaced by the other extreme: the automatic self-cleaning toilet, which British and Irish local councils also seem to love.

However, public toilets just about anywhere can be a truely vile experience. In general they're somthing to be avoided at all costs!



[This message has been edited by djk (edited 05-10-2005).]
Posted By: pauluk Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 05/11/05 11:28 AM
Quote
Well I never, Craig Douglas as ever was, the Singing Milkman! -that's got to be forty three years ago at least, before the Beatles anyway.
Yep, "Pretty Blue Eyes" was released in 1960.

The Top Rank label (owned by EMI) disappeared a few years later, about 1963 I think.
Posted By: Alan Belson Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 05/11/05 11:49 AM
Bonjour,
The last time I was in France was- just now!
Youre quite right, these beasts are getting rarer, but they ain't extinct yet! http://www.hurktoilet.nl/hurk-en.htm
shows a luxury dutch model and instructions for use. The more economy-minded French go for the plain cement version with genuine moulded bootmarks! The last time we saw one in 'full steam' was in a town in Brittany about 7 years ago. We didn't use it-it was foul, and instead went into the Mairie on a pretext and used the Maire's instead! Only large communes could afford a self-cleaning toilet, our village ones are very nice but traditional-modern flush with a cleaning lady. But, theres no door or screen, (or a wall for that matter!) for the mens urinal section- it's very common to see men urinating at the side of the road here. I believe that in the UK you were permitted to pee up an outside wheel of a wagon in the past (Carters' Law), but I expect you'd get nicked if you tried that today. As to French 'electric' shocks, to get back on thread, they do seem blase about safety. You can find ancient wiring still in use in many old houses, often wired three-phase, with the owner juggling the appliances to avoid tripping a phase. In Cognac in February this year we saw a friend's house with only 10A per phase, continually tripping with an electric kettle and one other item in use. I got the Poco out for them to raise these to 15A and arrange for a 15kw single phase rework, all this on a house that had been totally renovated in 2003 (by a Frenchman). And the reason for pushing the trips to the limit? It's because the bigger your company breakers, the more EDF charges for the electricity. .
A la prochaine!
Alan
Posted By: Gloria Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 05/11/05 05:44 PM
Cool! We also call this kinda place a "flea market" (or other hungarians are here too?) :~)))
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 05/11/05 07:08 PM
Back to Topic... I managed to get some signs of life out of the record player!
After bypassing the mains plug, fitting a new cord and plug, and permanently switching it to mains operation the motor turned and the amplifier hummed. At first the drive assembly produced horrible screeching noises but now it runs pretty smooth. Still give off a horrible noise level far from Hi-Fi though!
Now if I manage to get a new stylus I might even be able to fix it. On the other hand the first signs of life confirmed my suspections the beast was of rock bottom quality and is maybe too far gone to be of any future use. Basically I'd have to replace the queer molded-in mains connector (two long thin pins, bigger and much longer than those of the usual figure 8 connector) and I doubt that's possible without smashing the casing. Then I need a new stylus and needle and in the end I'd get an extreme el-cheapo record player that stinks.
Posted By: SvenNYC Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 05/15/05 06:52 PM
Yeah, that's pretty much the case with a lot of old radio & phono repair.

You spend money on a device, countless hours of time and effort -- and you end up with the realization that in its day, it was bottom-of-the-line junk (that someone probably scrimped and saved a few months salaries to buy). [Linked Image]

But then you're talking to someone who spent a few weekends glueing up various plastic parts on a 1970s transistorized clock radio made by General Electric in Singapore. The plastic had gotten so brittle it was cracking already.
Posted By: pauluk Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 05/15/05 11:19 PM
Unfortunately, it does go that way with the bargain-basement stuff. Still, even if the unit itself isn't really worth repairing, it can sometimes yield a few useful spare parts for use on future restoratioon projects of a more worthwhile nature.
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 05/16/05 08:55 PM
If I find the time I'll try to replace the mains connector with a standard figure-8 connector and check the price of a new stylus. Depending on the result it's fix or not.
Posted By: SvenNYC Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 05/20/05 02:52 PM
Ragnar, try breaking off the pins with a wire cutter and then drilling out the remains?

Then probably you can use the recess in the plastic to mount a standard cassette-recorder AC inlet. Of course you'll also need to figure out a switch in order for it to go between AC operation or batteries.

If you get a figure-8 inlet from a trashed boombox, the switch is usually incorporated in the connector. It's hard to find those switched inlets in the parts after-market.
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 05/20/05 06:23 PM
If I'm not seriously mistaken, some genius tried to fasten the inlet by melting the plastic with a soldering iron during a repair attempt. S/he also tried to solder around in the 220V AC part, don't ask me why. The inlet is bigger than a figure-8 inlet, so it'll definitely take some ingenuity.

Quote
If you get a figure-8 inlet from a trashed boombox, the switch is usually incorporated in the connector. It's hard to find those switched inlets in the parts after-market.
That#s exactly what I plan on doing. I got loads of bottom-of-the-line junk cassette recorders and I'm going to use one for spares. Not going to bother fixed it's shot amplifier!
Posted By: Scott35 Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 05/23/05 04:13 AM
Ranger,

What type of Cartridge does this Player use?

You might have a hard time locating the correct Stylus for the Cartridge, and may need to just get a new Cartridge - with a few extra Styli for future replacement. (hoping you do not need to go this route!).

I had a legacy Turntable - with a legacy Ceramic Cartridge (missing the Stylus - of course!), and could not locate any compatible replacement Styli anywhere!
Ended up replacing the Cartridge with a "P" Mount type (and a few extra Styli, too!).

Cost was around $25.00 (USD) for everything, but this was in 1993!

BTW, not sure how the original Cartridge's Amplified Output sounded, but the new one sounded excellent!
And I am a "Die-Hard Magnetic Cartridge" person!
[Linked Image]

Scott35
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 05/23/05 12:01 PM
Oops... got that one wrong. The entire cartridge is missing! I've just got loose wires with a strange 2-pin plug. I'll try to take a picture of that and post it.
Posted By: pauluk Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 05/24/05 08:06 AM
There's a mail-order company in Indiana which you might find useful. They carry all sorts of replacement stylii and cartridges, including many older types:
http://www.garage-a-records.com

I've also used a place here in England in the past called the Expert Stylus Company.

They don't have a website, but can supply all sorts of obscure and obsolete stylii:

Expert Stylus Company,
P.O. Box 3
Ashtead
Surrey, KT21 2QD

Tel.+44 1372 276604
Fax:+44 1372 276147

Email: w.hodgson@btclick.com
Posted By: SvenNYC Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 05/25/05 05:38 PM
Ragnar, what happened with that Eumig radio you menioned a while back on this thread?
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Quelle Simonetta record player - 05/25/05 06:35 PM
It's still sitting around in storage and waiting for someone to take care of it. Probably the caps should be replaced, but it works as is.
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