We may have been over this subject before here.
Have you ever had complaints from customers when they send in a $10 toaster and expect you to repair it for less than what they originally paid for the thing?.
I'm not talking about a small fault, but something like a broken element in a toaster or a $15 kettle with a burnt out element.
A lot of people can't get thier heads around the idea that thier cheap appliance isn't worth repairing.
The parts themselves required to effect a repair(If you can get them) can often cost more than a new appliance and then you have frieght and labour to fit the pieces.
Have you guys ever had to explain this in detail to customers?.
It really annoys me when they say "Just fix it!" and then having to eplain why the repair cost so much.

Been there, done it but only to myself . Faithful old B&D electric screwdriver gives up the ghost when the internal batteries will no longer accept any more charge. I suspect being off-charge for 3 months in a shipping container didn’t do it any good! So starts my dilemma – chuck it and get a new one or order replacement parts from B&D? Truth be known, the latter was slightly more expensive, but that screwdriver and I had been places! Would the new one have been as strong or as reliable? I don’t know. Maybe it’s because I hate waste or is it I’m just a sentimentalist!?

Oh boy, is this a familiar scenario!

I've lost count of the times I've tried to explain the economics of the situation, that replacement parts cost me 50 times what they cost the manufacturer, etc.

The problem with so many dsomestic appliances nowadays is that they're not really built with servicing in mind in any case. How many times have seen a cheap sandwich toaster or something similar where the only way to get into it would be to practically destroy the casing?

Sadly, more and more complex pieces of equipment are gradually falling into the "uneconomic to repair" category.

Remember when a VCR cost hundreds? A repair bill of £20 or £30 was accepted then. Now that people can go buy a VCR for £49.95 in the supermarket, many of them will do that and get a new warranty rather than repair an existing unit.

It's only the high-end stuff now that's worth repair to most people, plus more specialist items, such as vintage equipment enthusiasts (of which, as you know, I am one!).

I attended an electronics class in 1986, and someone brought over a $11 calculator and asked the instructor to repair it. He just dropped it in the wastecan and explained that a technician's pay is $35/hr.

One time I made the mistake of buying old PCs at garage (or should I say "garbage") sales. I got a 1984 128k MacIntosh for $5.

I soon learned the meaning of "doorstop".
There's really no software, hardware or support for a machine that has less memory than an average cellphone.

In a way, I'm not sad that these appliances are too expensive to fix.
As Paul said above, the darn things are too hard to dis-assemble in the first place.
I had a Grill unit last week that had 3 different types of Security screws on the same appliance.
It had a blown Microtemp in it, and it took about a 1/4 hour to get to bits and 2-3 minutes to replace the M/Temp.
This Grill retails for just short of NZ$100, but if it was any cheaper, I wouldn't have even bothered.
A lot the blame for this can be put down to how people look after their appliances these days too, 20 years ago, these types of things cost real money (and I suppose to a certain extent, they were better built) and to buy a new one, cost a small fortune.
People these days don't even bother to clean thier appliances, let alone care for them.

Hutch, your screwdriver most likely only needs new ni-cad batteries. If the old ones have white crusty stuff on the ends, they are likely shot. Be sure to get ones with solder tabs welded on, as trying to solder to a ni-cad is no fun and likely damages it anyway.


As for the broken toaster repair job, you could just "replace everything", AKA, buy a new one and tell the customer you had to change out everything. Of course, will she pay $20 for a $10 toester?

'ise,
I can't say that I'm that ken on the replace everything theory.
We had a Washing machine "Technician" at work a few years back, that used to get all sorts of complaints, about the cost of the jobs he done.
It turned out that he would replace various parts of the W/M until it worked properly, piece by piece, he was fired after he replaced ALL of the parts in a 2 month old W/Machine that had a faulty power cord, this must have been the last part that he replaced and charged the customer NZ$700 + Labour!.
Even so, the thing was still under warranty,
servicing by trial and error is just not my style.
Good riddance to bad rubbish, eh?.

Wa2ise, Those new batteries went in some time ago and I have not regretted the slight extra expense. Turning and burning - had a darn good 'turn' with it today!

Your "Alladin-esque" technique did come to mind - new lamps for old and a nice mark-up to boot!

[This message has been edited by Hutch (edited 11-29-2003).]

wa2ise, Hutch,
I've heard around that some Ni-Cad cells can actually explode if overheated during soldering, if you are going to solder these batteries, just be sure not to overheat the terminals.

In that case, Trumpy, just clip a small heat-sink (essentially a small pair of normally closed tweezers) on the terminal post of the battery that you're going to be soldering to.

Work quickly, use thin gauge solder wire...that stuff melts real fast with a small 30 watt pencil iron.

I know the feeling. So many modern appliances are so cheap and nasty to begin with, that working on them just doesn't have the same rewarding feeling as restoring a 40-year-old device to full operation.

There's just no way that a fine wooden cabinet can ever compare with a cheap, brittle plastic case, that is the hallmark of today's appliances.

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 12-02-2003).]

Trumpy, that washing machine repairer sounds like he used to be a car mechanic. More specifically, a mechanic that works on car air conditioning :-)

Anyway, what I meant by "replace everything" is to buy a new unit and throw away the old one.

I was extremely impressed with the servicablity of a new Miele washing machine I saw recently.

It is exceptionally well built and you can open the front panel on hinges to access the interior from the front and all of the parts are ultra high quality.

The digital control panel even has an IR port for uploading new software and fault diagnosis!

Very impressive peice of equipment in compairson to some of the cheap and nasty machines around.

djk,
Yes the use of lap-tops for appliance faults diagnosis is something that we have really got into over here.
Washing machines and refrigerators over here both have either an IR output or an RS-232 connection, to find out what's going on inside the machine.
You mentioned the Miele brand, thier Vacuum cleaners are among the easiest to service, that I have ever encountered and they give really good suction too!.

There is a 30 year old Nilfisk still working perfectly here and it has been used pretty much every day since it was bought



750W

It was replaced with



1800W

Designs have definitely moved on!


[This message has been edited by djk (edited 12-03-2003).]

I bet that new one won't last as long the old one!

I am alone in finding modern designs for appliances less than aesthetically appealing?

I reckon the old one looked a lot better when it was brand new and shiney. It's been banged into just about everything it could be banged into over the years.

It has a weird connector btw looks like this / / on the side of the motor. The newer versions just have a 2 pin IEC connector, looks like a kettle lead without the earth pin.

I've seen that weird connector too on old vaccum cleaners. What is it for?

in this case it was the connector for attaching the power cord

I think in some old vacuums it may have been an outlet socket for supplying power to an add-on motorised brush.

djk,
You'd think that with an appliance like this, (ie: having a full metal body) that you require the thing to be earthed or is the motor assembly fully Double Insulated?.
Don't worry mate, we have the Tellus brand of the very same vacuum cleaners here and they have the exact same connectors on them.

The connector has a springy metal scraping earth contact on both sides of the plug. Rather schuko-like. However I think newer versions of that machine were fully double insulated despite the aluminium body shell the motor was plastic housed.

[This message has been edited by djk (edited 12-07-2003).]

I repaired VCR's (stop laughing) from 1989 until 2001. For the first few years I was the hero- the guy that would only charge $150 to replace the video head, belts and whatever else on that $500 VCR and get it back to snuff. I'd get a bottle of booze at Christmas, complements, repeat business, etc. The last few years I was the $%^%$# who would have the 'nerve' to charge "a poor little old lady" $39.95 for a cleaning, minor alignment, maybe a belt or two, 'cause "I CAN BUY THAT FOR $79.95-- WHY WOULD I FIX IT?!?" I went from hero to screw in just a few short years. So I know exactly what you mean, Trumpy. I got to where a "just fix it" meant giving an estimate in advance (then duck and run). Pauluk (and all)- once, about 5 years ago, I started adding up the parts out of our dealer cost price list from a well known brand of $99 VCR. Just the video head/cylinder could approach the retail price of that VCR. I lost interest after my calculations topped $2000 to build that VCR from parts. It's no wonder no one wants anything fixed anymore. Now stop laughing, I don't fix 'em anymore.

Welcome to the forum Mickey.

I know exactly what you mean. I set up in business for myself repairing radio, TV, VCR, CB, marine radios and whatever else came along back around 1986.

These days I'll look at cheap domestic equipment for friends and neighbors as a favor, but even then, that cheap £49.95 VCR from the supermarket isn't usually worth spending any time on, unless it's something very simple. As for repairing them on a commercially viable basis, forget it.

It's ironic to think that in these modern times in which we're always being told to conserve resources, think of the environment, and so on, that so much of this equipment ends up as landfill for the sake of a couple of parts and an hour's labor.