ECN Forum
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Tramways in Vienna - 03/27/03 12:59 PM
Here are some pics of the most common means of public transportation in Vienna, the tram. There are about 30 lines all over Vienna.

[Linked Image from unet.univie.ac.at]

This is a type E1 car used on many lines, the oldest type still in service. The picture is taken in suburban Vienna.

[Linked Image from stud3.tuwien.ac.at]

This is a more recent E2 car in a very Viennese street.

[Linked Image from stud3.tuwien.ac.at]

And now the newest Ultra Low Floor (ULF) car.

Most lines are numbered, some have letters (as far as I remember D, J, N, O). Buses have a number followed by the letter A or B, A stands for municipial lines, B for private. Then we have 5 subway lines U1 to U6, U5 having been left out somewhere during the planning stage.
As far as I know all these vehicles operate on 750VDC, the buses are both Diesel and propane (I think).
Posted By: pauluk Re: Tramways in Vienna - 03/27/03 03:59 PM
Interesting pictures Ranger -- Thanks for posting them.

I notice that the system uses pantograph power pickups. Most, if not all, of the old tram (streetcar) systems in England (all but a couple of which were torn out many years ago) used trailing arm pick-ups running at 500V DC.

We also had what were called "trolley buses," running on normal rubber tires and using two trailing-arm pick-ups from overhead lines.

The lack of tracks and steerable wheels meant that they were a little more maneuverable in the heavy traffic, but of course they couldn't go too far off course otherwise they'd be left stranded without power!
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Tramways in Vienna - 03/27/03 04:15 PM
Trolley buses wre used in Vienna in the early 20th century on the lines that were too steep for trams. Salzburg still uses them, but they're not too reliable, I was told that they frequently jump off the wires and are indeed stranded without power.
The colors of the first picture are not too great, originally the red was the same as on the other 2 pics.
In the background of the first pic on the far left you can see a phone box.
Posted By: C-H Re: Tramways in Vienna - 03/27/03 06:01 PM
Trams seem to become increasingly popular. Paris once boasted that it was the first large city without trams(!) Now it just like many other european cities boast modern and comfortable trams.

Closer to home: My town, Stockholm, has a patchwork or rail-based means of transport. Ranging from scary old junk are neither tram nor train to new comfortable trams and underground trains.

The agency running them is cash struck, so it has been round Europe trying to find more junk. On the line where I live, we know have three different Swedish local trains, old Danish wagons pulled by locomotives from a freight company, some German trains from the Olympics in Munich 1972 and even a set of railcars out of the museum!

I'm no train buff but I just have to add some pictures:

The rail layout look like this. Each colour is a different line and vehicle type, except the three undground lines (red, green, blue)

The map is too big to post directly: Click here

{I have server problems at the moment, the link might not work. I hope the problems will go away}

The musem piece

[Linked Image from jarnvag.net]

The German trains (still owned by Deutsche Bahn) (It's not my photo, but I live 200m into the picture.)

[Linked Image from jarnvag.net]

The Swedish trains look just the same, only with flat fronts.

The trams range from:
[Linked Image from w1.870.telia.com]

to

[Linked Image from sl.se]

And finally this modern lousy excuse for a train, which I grew up next to:

[Linked Image from sl.se]

The old trains (some of which were of wood) looked a lot nicer. The gauge of this line is three Swedish feet, 891mm. 1500V DC overhead and it went electric in 1896!

I'll better stop here before you all fall asleep.

[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 03-27-2003).]
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Tramways in Vienna - 03/27/03 06:34 PM
Ok, adding a few more pics.

[Linked Image from unet.univie.ac.at]

Type T subway as used on U6 line. Older U6 cars basically look like E2.


[Linked Image from unet.univie.ac.at]

Type C1, taken out of service in 1996.


[Linked Image from stud3.tuwien.ac.at]

"Silberpfeil" (Silver Arrow) subway, used on all other subway lines. Apart from buses most hated vehicle all over Vienna. Interior kept in an ugly orange.


[Linked Image from unet.univie.ac.at]

F, my favourite vintage tram. Taken out of service about the same time as C1.
Posted By: C-H Re: Tramways in Vienna - 03/27/03 06:52 PM
Ragnar,
if they left out a whole line, do you also have stations that have notably been left out? In Stockholm, one station in the middle of a line was built but never opened. (The planners cancelled the residential area it was intended to serve.) On the "map" of the lines the otherwise equally spaced stations leave a gap where it should have been.
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Tramways in Vienna - 03/27/03 07:52 PM
Nothing that I know of. Only thing that comes to my mind is the Imperial Station, a station built for the emperor that was never used. Yes, and one big tram station was never finished. It was built for several tram lines passing the old downtown area underground, but this underground passage was never built. The station is now terminus of no less than 7 tram lines (37, 38, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44).
U1 is one of the more recent lines, being mostly underground. Highest suicide rate. U2 is an extended underground tram line and pretty useless. U3 is again a newly planned line. U4 and U6 used to be urban train lines until 1976 (U4) and 1989 (U6), U4 underground and in galleries along the Vienna river and the U6, probably the most beautiful line, mostly on bridges up above the streets, all the bridges and stations have been designed by Otto Wagner, a very famous architect in the 1890ies and the early 20th century.

[Linked Image from dominikanerinnen.at]

And then we still have a few real urban train lines, the elevated train or "Schnellbahn". They belong to the Austrian Railways and use real train cars instead of tram cars. Very very comfortable, but you have to deal with 15 min intervals instead of 2.5-10 minutes on other lines.
In spite of the efforts of many politicians Vienna still has a very effective public transportation system.
Posted By: frenchelectrican Re: Tramways in Vienna - 03/28/03 04:51 AM
ok can i add few more cent worth of chatting about trams ...

also been found in www.railroadforums.com

they have very good photo about trams and trains and electric locomotives there from time to time i will be chatting in RR forums there too i am former rr engineer /mechanic /electrican


merci marc
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Tramways in Vienna - 03/28/03 07:38 PM
I found a site with an incredible amount of international railway/subway/tram pics, mainly in English.

The European Railway Picture Gallery
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Tramways in Vienna - 12/23/03 11:57 AM
Picking up this old thread again...

Quote
Ragnar, if they left out a whole line, do you also have stations that have notably been left out? In Stockholm, one station in the middle of a line was built but never opened. (The planners cancelled the residential area it was intended to serve.) On the "map" of the lines the otherwise equally spaced stations leave a gap where it should have been.

Yes, there is a station that has been left out. When the former steam Stadtbahn line "Vorortelinie" (suburb line) was reopened as an electric Schnellbahn line in 1987 the station Unterdöbling that existed from 1898 to 1961 (though more or less out of service since 1932 when the regular service was cancelled) wasn't rebuilt. You can see where the trench walls go back leaving space for the platforms but there aren't any. (The S45 is mostly routed in an open trench).

Btw, the Vienna tram network is standard gauge (1435mm) and operates on nominal 600V DC, said to be changed to 750V where new construction takes place. The tram cars don't mind the higher voltage, according to the specifications the subway car type T is designed to work on 550 to 900V. The Badnerbahn (mix of tram and railway line to Baden near Vienna) uses the 600V tram catenary inside Vienna, then switches to the 750V U6 network at Schedifkaplatz and after one stop goes up to 900V for the long-distance route to Baden.
Posted By: djk Re: Tramways in Vienna - 12/25/03 02:48 AM
Here are a few pics of the Dublin Tram system "Luas" which is currently under construction.

[Linked Image from allaboutbuses.com]
Dublin bus and tram side-by-side

Here's a picture of the DART (Dublin Area Rapid Transit) local commuter rail system. (built in 1980 Linke-Hoffmann-Busch Germany)

These operate on Irish standard guage 1600mm and at 1500V DC

One of the original units:
[Linked Image from asahi-net.or.jp]

Newer Mitsui DART trains:

[Linked Image from mitsui.co.jp]

Built by Alstom and Mitsui


The Arrow (Diesel-hydrolic equivilant to DART used in Cork and Dublin commuter services)
[Linked Image from caf.es]

CAF (Spain) and Mistui (Japan)

[Linked Image from mercurio.iet.unipi.it]



[This message has been edited by djk (edited 12-24-2003).]
Posted By: C-H Re: Tramways in Vienna - 12/25/03 11:06 AM
Quote
Irish standard guage 1600mm

Ireland has its own gauge???
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Tramways in Vienna - 12/25/03 04:30 PM
Okay, a few more bits of transportation history. In the great railway age several private railway companies built huge railway stations in Vienna (Emperor Ferdinand north railway, Empress Elisabeth west railway, Emperor Franz-Joseph railway,...). With several steps of city enlargements some public transportation system had to be established. Around 1850 the first horse-drawn tramways opened, then there were three steam tram lines. In 1892 the Imperial-Royal Austrian state railways decided to build the "Stadtbahn", an urban steam train network linking the main stations. As an architect they got famous Otto Wagner who designed about _everything_ from the stations to the wooden benches at the platforms. Back then there were four lines, Suburb line, Guertel line, Wiental line and Danube canal line.

[Linked Image from members.chello.at]

In 1918 the steam service was cancelled due to coal shortages. In 1924 the city of Vienna agreed to lease the Wiental- Guertel- and Danube canal line from the Federal railways and electrify the lines. In 1925 the "Vienna Electric Stadtbahn" opened using 2-axle tram cars that could be used in the tram network if the Railways ever wanted the Stadtbahn back. Up to nine of these cars (three motorcars and six trailers) were combined in trains and could be operated by a single driver in the first motorcar. Power system was 750V DC catenary.

[Linked Image from members.chello.at]

During summer the doors were usually open since no one cared to close them.

In 1954 the city decided to get some new cars. Since the general public was oriented against public transportation they didn't buy the intended 6-axle articulated cars but built new 2-axle cars using several electrical parts of the old cars. this process was finished in 1961 when the last cool type N car with open sliding doors and real wooden seats pulled into the depot. N1 cars had automatic doors and some other advantages. Most of all the new doors kept the Russian soldiers from jumping off the running train [Linked Image]
(There have been several fatal accidents with drunk Russian soldiers doing exactly that).

[Linked Image from members.chello.at]

During the 1970ies there were several scary accidents involving the N1 cars, mostly faulty brakes. From 1976 to 1981 the Wiental and danube canal line was gradually converted to heavy rail subway with 95cm high platforms (Stadtbahn platforms were only 35 cm above top of rail, like all railway platforms in Austria) and third rail power system. The Guertel line got new articulated cars (type E6, looking like type E2) in 1980 and in 1983 the last N1 went it's way into eternity. In 1988 the Guertel line was converted to right-hand driving and is now also called subway, though incompatible to all other subway lines.
Many more (and better quality) pics can be found at http://www.tramway.at/h/stadtbahn.html

[This message has been edited by Texas_Ranger (edited 12-25-2003).]
Posted By: djk Re: Tramways in Vienna - 12/25/03 08:01 PM
I did a little web research and it looks like we do have a weird standard gauge of 1600mm

Standard "Stephenson" gauge 1435mm / 4'8" was used on the first railway line that opened here Dublin - Kingston (opened 1835) but it was replaced by " Irish gauge" which is 1600mm or 5'3"

1600mm is used for all lines in Ireland (Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland)

(Also used in parts of Australia (being converted to standard gauge), new zealand, and in Germany for the Badische Staatsbahn)


[This message has been edited by djk (edited 12-29-2003).]
Posted By: pauluk Re: Tramways in Vienna - 12/26/03 11:07 AM
The standard gauge in the U.K. is 4' 8 1/2", adopted in the 19th century. Other gauges were used though, most notably the broad gauge of the Great Western Railway, which was around 7 ft. It was converted to standard gauge in, I think, the 1890s.

Apparently on the island of Jersey part of the track was built to German standards during the occupation in WWII. The remainder was British standard gauage, and for many years everything had to be re-loaded onto the correct wagons at the changeover points.

On the issue of disused stations, there are quite a few on the London Underground (subway system):


http://www.starfury.demon.co.uk/uground/


P.S. For tram/streetcar fans, be sure to check the "Kingsway Underpass" page for an interesting relic of the days of London trams. [Linked Image]



[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 12-26-2003).]
Posted By: djk Re: Tramways in Vienna - 12/29/03 09:20 PM
Here's a rather rare colour picture of the last Dublin Tram at Howth, Co. Dublin in 1959.

[Linked Image from angelfire.com]

It shows the overhead cable and trailing arm PaulUK described.
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Tramways in Vienna - 12/30/03 03:30 PM
Vienna abandoned the trailing arm system pretty soon in favor of so-called lyra power pick-ups. They looked really cool! In the late 1940ies scissor style power pickups came up and were replaced by standard pantographs in the late 60ies. The last cars with scissor pickups were the type C1 that were taken out of service in 1996.
Posted By: djk Re: Tramways in Vienna - 12/30/03 03:53 PM
The old trailing arm pick up system looks really unreliable but from what I've heard of the old systems they worked quite effectively for 50 + years.

I'm just curious as to why on the DART system in Dublin the pantagraph contacts two wires simultaniously one on each side. Most systems I've seen pics of here seem to have just one. Is it just splitting the load over 2 cables? or is it actually getting a hot + neutral connection overhead?

I know the DART was operated over non-continiously welded track in the past. I don't think the line had been drastically upgraded since the 1800s smile

How is the circuit normally made? Takes power from above and uses the tracks as a neutral?

I know absolutely nothing about train power systems smile

Although I've seen "third rail" systems in NYC that looked leathal. Same system used in the UK?

[This message has been edited by djk (edited 12-30-2003).]
Posted By: pauluk Re: Tramways in Vienna - 12/30/03 04:17 PM
So far as I know, all the old tram systems in Britain used a single hot line with the return via the running rails.

Trolley buses were introduced in some cities (including London), running with conventional rubber tires and steering gear to give them greater maneuverability in heavy traffic. They were still restricted by the need for overhead power pickups, and because no return was available via the wheels, they used two trailing arms like the one in the Dublin picture.

Quote
Although I've seen "third rail" systems in NYC that looked leathal. Same system used in the UK?
Over here, third rail electrification is most closely associated with the old Southern Region (serving the area from London down to the South Coast).

That railway used (and still uses) third rail extensively, again with the return via the running rails. The 3rd rail is just completely exposed; at least in the NYC subway system they have a running board over the top of the rail.

The London Underground was originally lines owned by different companies, and some used a 3rd rail electrification system, but they were all gradually standardized on the four-rail system, keeping traction current out of the running rails. You can see the twin conductor rails here:

[Linked Image from trainweb.org]


It's quite an unusual arrangement, with about +420V on the positive (outer) conductor rail, and -210V on the negative (central) rail. The exception is where tracks are shared with the mainline electric trains (above ground). On those portions the central rail is bonded to earth and the running rails, and the full +630V applied to the positive rail, thus making the tracks compatible with standard 3rd rail trains.



[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 12-30-2003).]
Posted By: C-H Re: Tramways in Vienna - 12/30/03 04:43 PM
In some cases, three phase traction has been used, mainly in Italy. This requires two or three catenaries. However, it would look different from the way it does in the Irish picture.

When you use the rail as return, you need to suck the current back into a return conductor at certain intervals. The earth is a good conductor and stray voltage effects would be a serious problem if you didn't do this. Hutch posted a good article on this here

There are transformers based on the same principle for use with the supply to ordinary buildings too, used to limit the current that escapes via waterpipes and similar in PME systems.
Posted By: djk Re: Tramways in Vienna - 12/30/03 05:12 PM
I know the DART power system was installed by Siemens in 1982/3 from scratch as the system had never been electrified before. So I'm guessing it prob. uses a pretty standard German/European way of doing things.

1500V DC
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Tramways in Vienna - 12/30/03 10:56 PM
The second wire could be some signalling thing. Some tramway lines used three wires, two of them fed the line voltage back to a signal (the pantograph just connected the wires) to indicate the section was busy.
Third rail system means here the power rail (+750V) is to the left or right of the runnig tracks, slightly elevated and the power pickup comes from below, so the top of it can be fully insulated. Trams usually have the catenary positive and the tracks negative. I think AC setups have a hot catenary and neutral rails.
1500V DC is Italian/French railway stuff. Austria and Germany rather use 650 or 750V DC or 15kV AC.
Posted By: Hutch Re: Tramways in Vienna - 12/30/03 11:43 PM
Quote
I'm just curious as to why on the DART system in Dublin the pantograph contacts two wires simultaneously one on each side. Most systems I've seen pics of here seem to have just one. Is it just splitting the load over 2 cables? or is it actually getting a hot + neutral connection overhead?

DJ, do you have any pictures of this arrangement? It sounds somewhat unusual. I can think of no reason why a steel railed system would need an aerial return path – it would only (and greatly) complicate the overhead with two potentials up there. I can only think of track circuit immunization but there are many other successful ways of overcoming this – using ac track circuits with dc traction current for example.

An early (read c. 1900) proposal for the London Underground involved a Hungarian three phase system using two overhead wires in a corner grounded delta arrangement and I would doubt such an arrangement on a modern 1980’s Metro. Manchester Metrolink uses two parallel wires a few cm apart on its on-street section. I think it is to spread the load but has an added advantage that at the delta junction in the centre of the city the pair of wires split at one junction and pair up with another wire at the following junction, i.e. no city centre wire terminations are required.

I see Dublin’s new Luas trams are to the European standard gauge of 4’8½” (1435mm) and not the Irish gauge of 5’3”.

On the trolley pole overhead collector, one can still travel on trams fitted with these on revenue service at Blackpool and the Manx Electric Railway. I remember traveling on a double-deck Blackpool tram some years ago when all the lights went out, there was a loud metallic bang and the tram glided to a stop. The metal end of the trolley pole that contains the small pick-up wheel had fallen off! The powerless cripple was pushed some distance to the next loop by the following service.

[Edited to correct nationality of 3 phase]


[This message has been edited by Hutch (edited 12-30-2003).]
Posted By: pauluk Re: Tramways in Vienna - 12/31/03 11:50 AM
Almost all of the old tram systems were gone by the time I was born in 1966, so the first time I ever rode a tram was about 1977. That was at a Preservation Society in Devon, and was just a single line laid specially as a tourist attraction.

I rode the Blackpool trams around 1988, and it was good to see them in service as both a combined tourist attraction and as a daily means of transport for many of the locals.

There's some interesting information about Blackpool's trams here:
http://www.allanburke.freeserve.co.uk/trams/default.htm
Posted By: djk Re: Tramways in Vienna - 12/31/03 12:43 PM
There is a BIG fuss over Dublin's LUAS system for a number of reasons:

It's:
*massively over budget
*not open on time
*causing much more construction disruption than had been anticipated
*not inter-linked with exsisting transport infrastructure (Bus, Dart, Arrow or Surburban rail)
the radial lines themselves don't even come into one central terminus so you'd have to walk to go from one part of the city to another.
*The difference in guage also means that there's no possibility of LUAS operating over the DART network.
*The proposed metro system cost estimates place it as the most expensive metro project (euro per KM) ever built!

Oh yeah, despite being ridiculous over-priced it still manages to cross the busiest dual-carriage way junction in the city AT ROAD LEVEL!!! via traffic lights..

The DART was a very cost effective project in comparison.

Admittedly, part of the problem is that this kind of infrastructure should have been built in the 1950s and 60s and is just arriving far too late and was not really planned for.

Dublin, unlike most European cities, adopted a very American development plan pinning all of its hopes on the car. It's ended up as the lowest density city in Europe with sprawling leafy suburbs spreading out for miles. The housing density is extremely low and people pretty much refuse point blank to live in apartments or townhouses. The city itself has extremely high property prices which have made things worse by driving people further and further out. So you now have people living in a town 50-60miles from Dublin and working in the city centre!

The result:

* People are so spread out that the public transport infrastructure can't possibily serve them
* 3 car families as it's impossible to get shopping, kids to school, to/from college etc without a car.
* an increasingly shopping-mall oriented car-focused US-style society and a city centre that is just not somewhere people live anymore. You go into the city to work in financial services, go night clubbing or do various leisure activities only. It's like somewhere you visit rather tha live in.
* Oh and it's causing massive traffic jams which are causing us to be even further off our kyoto protocall targets

It'll be interesting to see what sollutions we can come up with. There is a drive (tax incentivised) to repopulate the city centre area with appartments which is partially working. It's a most un-European city though.

The other trend is that businesses are starting to move into the rapidly devloping towns around Dublin.. so for some people it's meant the entire life now takes place in a smaller town outside the city!

There are advantages.. bigger houses, lots of space, arguably nicer lifestyle (unless you're commuting)

But I think long-term it's not very sustanable.
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Tramways in Vienna - 12/31/03 03:03 PM
Here in Vienna the tramway system is a very important everyday transportation for locals. Tourists use it, but it isn't by any menas a tourist attraction. Students use it for going to school or university, people use it to go to work, seniors take the tram to their coffee table,...
Some people love the trams (like me), others hate them but none of us can really live without them. After WWII there were severe efforts to get rid of all public transportation in favor of cars, several tramway lines were converted to bus lines (something most people who live near those lines still rant about, buses are far noisier than trams and create lots of soot), but fortunately in Austria everything takes longer than in other countries, so by the time others realized the value of public transportation the largest part of our tram system was still up and running. Personally I'd love to see more of the lovely old museum cars in service, like for example in Amsterdam. Those old beasts with open doors and wooden interior were way cool.
Posted By: djk Re: Tramways in Vienna - 12/31/03 03:55 PM
We did the complete opposite..

Back in the 1930s we established CIE, a nationalised public transport athority to run all Bus, Rail and some other systems too. It bought-out all the private operators usually to shut them down a few months later for "economic reasons".

At the time Ireland had very extensive railways including a lot of rural narrow gauge systems which should have been upgraded and preserved (in my opinion)

We closed many hundreds of miles of railways, ripped up all the city tram systems, closed suburban rail lines in Dublin and Cork. Closed all lines that were not radial from Dublin meaning that it suddenly became impossible to get a train directly between any of the provincial towns or cities. Leaving about 1200 miles of lines open today.

A very unenlightened transport policy!

Northern Ireland's attitude to rail was even more unimaginative. The long since abolished, UTA (Ulster Transport Athority) in a simlar way to CIE closed pretty much everything except 2 mainlines in Northern Ireland i.e. Belfast - Londonderry/Derry and Belfast - Dublin. Leaving only 342KM of track today!

Rail's making a comeback though.. Irish rail's getting quite a lot of money to improve services. We should see new a new Cork - Dublin intercity fleet late this year or early 2005. Older rolling stock is being phased out meaning nothing should be older than late 1970s (BREL Mk III trains)... there were some real old crocks complete with steam brakes! (although diesel hauled) operating some of the not-so-heavily-used services until recently! All being replaced by modern Mitsui diesel-hydrolic railcars..

The old ones were nice though, big cushy seats and very effective steam heating And due to the lack of automatic doors required a guard to blow a real whistle [Linked Image] They smelt like a museum on-board.. kinda slightly musty.. [Linked Image] and it was a bit like stepping back into the Victorian era ... I think they're called "Cravens"

Any in the UK know ?

Irish Rail fleet: Irish Rail Fleet

----

I think it would make a LOT of economic sense to electrify the entire rail network here and start operating some more ecologically friendly services.

[This message has been edited by djk (edited 12-31-2003).]

[This message has been edited by djk (edited 12-31-2003).]
Posted By: Hutch Re: Tramways in Vienna - 01/01/04 11:43 PM
Back on the subject of Vienna trams, my parents and I some years back visited Austria and spend a day in Vienna. Being rail nuts, we took the obligatory ride on a tram. Living as I was at the time in South Africa and having some knowledge of Afrikaans (a kind of Germanic language) was tasked with using my best German (which is awful!) to buy the tickets. The ticket seller having listened to my best impression of the correct way to purchase three tickets in German, smiled and in impeccable English asked me were I wanted to travel to, sold me the tickets and bid me Good Day! I was very impressed as I doubt any driver/ticket seller on the Blackpool system would know a word of German.

The old man has his video camera constantly running on these sort of trips and videos the whole tram ride – interior passengers and all. Shortly after that trip, the new James Bond film starring Timothy Dalton was released (‘The Living Daylights’?) in part of which he is supposed to be traveling on a tram in Bratislava or somewhere. We realized that all this footage was shot on a Vienna tram identical to the one we had traveled on. During editing of the holiday video a two second clip of James Bond’s tram ride was inserted into that part of the journey. It’s over before most people notice it but it’s amusing to hear people say “Hey that was James Bond/Timothy Dalton!?”. “Did you realize he was on board with you?”.
Posted By: pauluk Re: Tramways in Vienna - 01/03/04 09:01 AM
The name of Dr. Beeching is well-known in Britain. He's regarded as the government official most responsible for the decimation of our rail network in the 1960s. Many small branch lines were closed down, leaving a lot of rural communities with no public transport, a situation which still exists today.

You can see remnants of stations and rights-of-way in places, along with a little irony at times. One town near to where I lived some years ago had a road named Beechings Way. No prizes for guessing that the railway once passed through there.

Quote
I was very impressed as I doubt any driver/ticket seller on the Blackpool system would know a word of German.
It's Lancashire -- They can barely speak English! [Linked Image]
Posted By: Hutch Re: Tramways in Vienna - 01/03/04 03:40 PM
Na then Paul lad! Tha's tawkin bout were I were braut up. Nowt rong wi that! [Linked Image]

{trans}

Steady-on Paul my good fellow. You are discussing where I was raised. Nothing wrong with the place!

[This message has been edited by Hutch (edited 01-03-2004).]
Posted By: pauluk Re: Tramways in Vienna - 01/06/04 10:41 AM
No offense intended! [Linked Image] Many of us Southerners really have a problem understanding some of the northern accents though. I visited Bradford once and had a really hard time understanding some of the people there.

I know that's the "rose of a different color" from a Lancashire perspective! [Linked Image]

(I can never remember which county is red and which white!)
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Tramways in Vienna - 01/06/04 11:36 AM
Hutch: Yeah, I remember that. IIRC they took a museum car on line 42, pretty close where I live to (the radial lines are numbered clockwise and I live near line 41) and called it Bratislava. They even put up large sheets of paper with czech names on all shops along the route and some large transparents with Russian paroles on the old Stadtbahn bridges. I once read that several older people said: "Now the Russians are back! I always told so!". I'll try to find out more about that story. Must have been back in the 80ies. The last Stadtbahn went in October 1989 and the last trams without ticket vending machines disappeared in 1996.
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