How often are you required to work "Live"?
Where you cannot isolate your power source,
or cannot find the CB, because it is not marked.
How do you do your work, when a circuit is required to be kept on?.
Computers, to a certain extent, have caused this.
Your input please-

>How do you do your work, when a circuit is required to be kept on?.
As careful as possible! This is one reason why I prefer strip connectors to wirenuts, you cann add or remove wires without completely taking apart the connections!
More or less the only occasion where I work hot is when the lights are on the circuit I'm working on and I don't want to sit in the dark.

There's not usually much need to work live in the residential systems that form most of my work. Live panel changeovers is an exception, as people around here want to avoid the added cost of a call-out from the PoCo.

The exception to this rule, for my type of work, would be 3phase work, especially where
there is lots of Earthed metal around.
Just makes the work so much slower and more
sort of "thinking work", your every move counts.
Recently hooked up a building for the local power board, using 50mm2 wires (3Phase), live,took me 3 Hours.
Blew out my companies quote for the job, but,
I'm still here to talk about it.

I had to replace a main breaker one (crumbly
old Stab-Lock)

in the US we have OSHA, and what is refered to as 'sub part S' , we also have NFPA 70E.

sub-part S can be found in OSHA's on line page.

NFPA 70E can be had for about $30 here, it is a concise document , one i wish was at least refered to in my apprenticeship.

In a nutshell, both detail the basics of live work, proper posting, arc-flast zones, PPE, etc. for any electrical worker to legally' do live work.

I have 2 reservations about this.....

#1- OSHA (last i knew) , did not recongnize 70E. One can assume OSHA training here through the private sector but it is usually something found in the cities at exorbitant rates.

One flyer in my mail asked $650 for a weekend course, and was 4 hrs away. Subseqently the 'little guy' here doesn't receive much safety training because of this.
Nor is anything nearby and/or convieniently had for those well heeled.

#2 After one completes the training live work is expected under what i would consider a grey criterior .
The 'employee'-'employer' card is played against the 'employee' who cannot challenge the job at hand regardless of hazard level .


Given the latter, and this forums insightful knowledge of our electrical system vs. those elsewhere on the planet, i'm fairly convinced that concerns for corporate liabilty are more a motive than personal safety here.

Everything can be isolated, I isolate if im on my own normally, if theres a couple of us then i might chance it.

true old Appy...
however there are certain designs that manufacture's could follow to lend to the isolation concept.

one example is the Canadian residential panel's main breaker, the connections to it are isolated from the rest of the panel's innards.

this i view as a relatively economical safety feature.

Trumpy, I do not disagree that folks often use the "computer" excuse, but it’s a fairly worn-out one. If their friggin' data is so important, where is their eight-hour triple-redundant-everything backup system? In a lot of cases, that makes the self-appointed techno hotshots stutter or quiet down at least for awhile.

You may want to invoke the official boilerplate used succesfully by most utilities: "While we make every reasonable effort to provide electric-service continuity, we are not liable for loss of same."

Give your customer/boss a choice - shut down the circuit(s) or have them sign a disclaimer.
I use one that says that live work is dangerous and I will not be responsible for any damages caused, any data lost or injuries incurred. Then ask for a copy of thier insurance policy and thier agent's phone number.
It's suprising how fast that a shut down then gets arranged.

Good ideas, guys,must try these ones.
Although, working live was an integral part of my training with the Power board, it still
gives me the willies!
Especially where wires are joined in a terminal, you never know if the wires are actually twisted together or not.
You only find out once you have the wires out
of the said terminal.
A good example of this is the Porcelain fuse-holders, we use over here, that have to be replaced when adding new work.

Paul,
What do you mean with a "Live panel changeover"?.
Could you please clarify this?.

Trumpy,
I mean installing a new main distribution panel ("Consumer unit") live so that the customer doesn't have to pay the PoCo to come out to pull/refit/seal the main fuse.

It's not too difficult to do as most of our domestic panels are in plastic enclosures. Obviously I will do it only if the existing cabling from the meter can be reused and if I consider that the live changeover can be made in a safe way.

It would be nice to not have to do this, but many people in this area are on very low incomes, and find it hard enough to pay for the wiring work without the extra PoCo fees.

Paul, I am sure that you are well aware that in the UK live working is to be avoided if at all possible. The Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 specifically require the cct to be dead unless it is unreasonable in all the circumstances.

Paul,
How much does your Power Company charge for
disconnecting and re-connecting for you Electricians?.
Over here,it is normally done for NZ$30,
however I can do this myself, being an approved person, to do this, so all of the
abuse and low wages, finally paid off.

Here in Ontario Canadai, I don't know what the charge is, but it is billed to the customer, and there is a free disconnect/reconnect per year.

Lyle,
Hello, and welcome to ECN. Nice to have a member from the Emerald Isle!

Yes, I'm aware that current guidelines suggest that live working be avoided wherever possible, although I certainly couldn't quote the 1989 Elec. at Work Regs. in their entireity!

Trumpy,
The local PoCo charges any fees directly to the customer's bill, but the last time I checked the fee was around £35.

That may not sound a lot, but to many people in this area that represents a week's groceries.

Paul,
I see what you mean about the Cutting Charge(
as it is called over here),the bill for this is normally sent to us, and we charge the customer accordingly, so unfair.
I've done this work for people on low incomes,before, where they want to paint around the o/head connection box, no charge,
just give me a ring when you want it hooked back up, no issues, no drama.

Trumpy & Paul,
In my area PoCo permits NICEIC / SELECT approved contractors to cut seals (with permission) free of charge for replacement of consumer's switchgear.
Unregistered contractors are supposed to be charged £40, but this is a very new arrangement.
I am SELECT approved so I do not have to pay a re-sealing charge.

David,
With respect to re-sealing meters, who normally re-seals them?.
Is it a Power board Inspector?, or some other such person?.
Do they check the quality of the wiring before they re-seal it?.
Just wondering.

In Vienna a PoCo technian reseals them, and he usually doesn't even bother to take a look at the wiring (as long as he doesn't see the loose splices and cables hanging out of open walls upon entering the appartment/house). In our case he just came, openend the meter enclosure in the stairway with the standard key (there's one key for any type of meter (power, gas,...) and fuse enclosures), put on the seals and disappeared without us even noticing him.

Trumpy,
PoCo re-seals meter, but under the new arrangement qualified contractors (like myself) are issued with temporary paper seals to put over the cover screws.
These seals are supposed to discourage meter tampering by the householder until the next routine visit by the PoCo to fit a permanent metal seal. The temp. seals have a serial no. which has to be recorded with the installation address and sent to the local PoCo office.
The PoCo will not inspect the quality of work if you are an approved contractor (SELECT or NICEIC), as we certify our own work.
Non approved contractors are supposed to be charged a £40 re-sealing fee, and I believe this includes a brief inspection of the PME earthing & bonding. I don't think the inspection is any more detailed than that.

David,
Over here, an Electrical Inspector re-seals the meter covers, using a short piece of High-Tensile wire and a Lead Sealing Ring.
If you are not registered over here, cutting one of these, will normally(provided you are
caught),land you in court, theft of Electricity, is taken very seriously over here. Depending on how long it has been going on and how much you have stolen,
you could be looking at a prison term of up to 5 years.