New laptop, Win 8.1. Wow, is this going to take time to get used to!!

BTW, new LT is not 'touch screen'

Good luck! I have 8 and hate it. Reading about the fixes of .1 didn't seem like they would make 8 suck any less. But I have it in a cheap laptop that I bought just to make a TV streaming video capable, and I think it works well enough for that.
Joe

Yes, I put the .1 update in. And, WOW...it is a learning experience.

i7 chip, 8 GB Mem, and a lot to try to learn.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2054...l-start-menu-that-windows-8-1-didnt.html
I did install the "Classic Shell" several months ago. At least it gave the Start Menu back. You should give it a shot.
Joe

I am still collecting XP license stickers.
I already took one of my machines from 7 to XP.

I do not like 8 either!

All the new Intel/AMD/Microsoft-Based Computers for sale at Costco use the Win 8 OS.
Spent maybe Two Hours on many-many different Machines (Laptop and Desktop), before being asked to leave

For me, XP Pro and Win 7 are the only OS's I would ever use for current Applications...

--Scott (EE)

Scott:
They really asked that you leave??

I was in the 'Big Yellow Tag' store twice at a min. of 2-3 hours, searching thru the laptops. I'm partial to Toshiba, but with an open mind I checked others.

Most of the 'new' models have touch screens, a route that I did not want to go down. All have Win 8; a few had 8.1 installed. A few 'tricks' from one of the 'geeks' have me down a path that I feel I can handle, although it will still be a learning experience.

I thought about switching to Apple, but $$$ and software issues sent me away.

Windows 8 was designed for touch screen, 8.1 was to help people that did not like the touch screen. Be careful as most win 8 machines cannot be rolled back to XP or even 7 due to the Bios installed for 8. Same goes for some 7 machines. If you want a machine you can put other operating systems, best to build it yourself, or by a generic laptop that will work with any operating system.

John...



Not directly... However, after the Third time a Salesperson approached me, stating:

"Are You SURE there is nothing We may assist You with, or help You make a possible Purchase Today???!!!???"

I figured They were getting tired of My presence, along with My default response of: "Just Looking, Thanks!!!"

Besides that, a few Customers started asking Me questions about the Machines & Operating System, of which I responded truthfully...
(responses benefited the Customers more than the Sales Department!)

Believe Me, there was no intention to be a nuisance to the Sales Staff; and I think the only reason the Customers Queried Me was They overheard My Wife and I discussing Pros -vs- Cons of various Machines.

--Scott (EE)

http://www.classicshell.net/
So how many of you installed the Classic Shell and do you think it helps?
Joe

Yes, I did the install, and so far I think it's helpful.

It is still a learning experience on that laptop.

Scott35:
Perhaps you had a California experience? 'Salesmen' here are hard to come by in that chain, although you can get 'help' at the customer service counter.

John,
I wouldn't go down that road unless you REALLY need to.
I'm forced to use an iPad at work to input all my job invoicing, I hate the thing with a passion, it's more suited to people with smaller fingers than me, I've just about worn a hole in the screen where the backspace "key" is on the screen, it has no cursor control keys, so if you need to change anything, you find yourself deleting quite a bit of text to get back to where you went wrong.
It's actually got to the point John, where I'll do most of my input stuff at home on a computer with a real keyboard and leave the iPad at work, so much for convenience.

Trumpy:

I was refering to an Apple laptop, not the ipad.

I have an i-phone, and use it to text, which are very short. I use it for email when I'm on the road and must reply, but I keep that very short also.

I thought of an ipad for my wife, but she had objections like you said above, so I got her a laptop also.

I bought a stylus to use on the phone to make it easier; drawback to that is I have to make sure it's in my pocket.

All good, John.
I think if you were going to go for anything Apple, you'd want to get a Laptop.
However as you said above, the cost and the software limitations make a decision like this very hard to make.

One thing that really annoys me about computers, is that you can't network different types together, I mean, I have 1 XP computer, 1 W7 computer, 1 Linux computer and my (work) iPad, NONE of these computers will talk to any of the others, not even the XP one and the W7 one, which I think is nothing short of rediculous, the only way you can share files between them all is with a USB stick, which the iPad doesn't have a port for anyway.
I thought it was all supposed to be about connectivity these days?

That is why I am still sticking with XP. It will talk to W/98 machines, DOS machines and even my ReplayTV DVR.

I understand there is a way to get W7 to talk to XP machines but it was not worth the hassle. I loaded XP over the W7 that came on my lap top.
I still have the disk if I want to go back but it is not likely soon. It is supposed to be added security on 7 that makes this harder but if someone gets a cable into my network, I have worse problems than them stealing my stolen music.

Greg,
I built a new desktop from scratch with W7 (Home Premium) on board.
I thought that I might be able to revert this to XP, no way is what the Man said.
One thing that REALLY annoys me about W7 is that it has no way to revert to Windows Media Player 10 (which is an XP version).
WMP12, has a really annoying compression function in the software, so when you go to listen to your music, the volume level goes up and bloody down, there is no way you can turn this off either, it is in-built into the software.
I'm currently trying to learn a whole orchestra opus as it pertains to double bass, WMP12 isn't even in the picture because it can't give a stable audio level.
I've heard that it is a "driver issue" from those at M$, bollocks, let's just pass the buck.

I have never even heard of that.
How is it "on board"? In ROM? There must be a way to disable that. Have you looked at the BIOS setup options?

Per the LAN Peer-To-Peer issue;

I had no problems bringing my New Win 7 OS Machine on to our existing 100BT Ethernet LAN, consisting of several Machines using Win XP OS (currently SP 3.xxx, or whatever the SP build was in March or April!).

One Machine on our LAN is quite "Mature"... The Disk Drives are IDE (actually, they are ATA...); the Processor is an AMD equivalent of a Pentium III (Not a Celeron, though!!!), and it uses PC 133 DRAM!
It's still using an older XP version - something like SP 2.5, or so.

Nevertheless, File Transfer / sharing, LAN Printing (and even One directly PC connected "Shared Printer"), as well as Internet / E-mail access through our ADSL Gateway, are all working properly between Machines with XP and W7 Operating Systems.

Workstation Setup was somewhat painless with the W7 Machine, it just took some time for me to comprehend the new terminology of the W7 Connectoid scheme, vs what I have grown use to for 10 Years in XP.
Compared to the days before Plug & Play, or for Greg; MCA, I really cannot complain too much... Not that setting hardware jumpers was all that difficult, the frustration came when POST/Bootstrap (IRQ80, or so) let you know of an Address conflict - which, for some reason you know that "03BCh" is available, you intend on setting the Jumpers for that Address, but instead you set them for "0278h" and upset either your Sound Card, or the Dual EPP/ECP Parallel Port Card on your ISA Bus!

Although I dealt with only a few MCA installations - primarily 4/16 Token Ring NICs or 10BT Ethernet NICs on IBM System 70 -ish Machines, with the occasional new Video Adapter installs, my MCA experience and study came shortly before PCI Bussing was released.

Similar to the Reverse Engineering of IBM's ROM BIOS on the XT 8088 (correction requested), so was the "Non-Proprietary" version of IBM's Microchannel Architecture:
.... The new high speed "Peripheral Component Interconnect" Bus - which incorporated "Plug & Play" capabilities (Software Configuration) inspired by the development of MCA.

PCI Bus speed was 33MHZ (IIRC), and MCA was either 16MHZ, or 25MHZ (IIRC). Both eliminated those annoying Bottleneck issues of the elder 8/16MHZ ISA Bus, which kept the Machine from entering Boat Anchor Mode from endless waitstates.

Well, I really do not know what got me on this PCI Bus Tangent, other than My wife's Aunt is forcing us to drink Beer and Rum..., so let me return to that before She gets upset and breaks out the Tequila!!!

--Scott (EE)

Update, yesterday.
Had a few updates from Toshiba, and 'let it rip'.

Laptop reboots and ......a 'Repair' screen takes over.
Potion was to 'refresh' which maintains my files
OK, hit 'refresh'....come back in half hour.

Now back to square one, W8, no 8.1 and cannot do the update to 8.1 because 'previous required updates are not in'.

Not being a computer wiz, looked around carefully for a 'maintenance' schedule which installs the updates that are required. Think I found it somewhere, and it's 6PM when the PC is 'on & on 120 volt power'.

Does the above sound right?

*** PREFACE: This Message is very long, and describes the Processes that John "Hotwire1" will be facing per the Restoration and Upgrade tasks of the Toshiba Laptop Computer.
Feel Free to read / pass over what is of interest / non-interest, or simply move to the next message of the thread.
My hopes are to provide some type of "Map", to what should and may be involved with this process.
There are a lot of things going on, which may make things appear as "Outside Ones Abilities"; but that is not true!
It is just a very looooooooong process!
Anyone with Technical abilities may perform these tasks successfully; provided they have some type of a reference to guide them through the unknown, or the "Iffy" stuff!

--Thx!!!
S.E.T.

--------------------Response Text------------------------


The Update error message sounds typical of MS Operating Systems, of the > 3.0 base (anything greater than, or equal to Windows 95, SER 2.5).

As I have no clue what terminology changes took place in the Windows 8 development, the Utility which will be relative to the Operating System configuration process (what is taking place right now, which will eventually allow you to update the OS to Win 8.1) is the one known in XP as:
Automatic Updates

You may initiate the Updating processes Manually, or "Prune" the list of Update stuff selected by the OS & the MSDS Website Update Robot.

Basically, what is taking place right now consists of:

A: The Toshiba Utility performed a High Level Format (in an expedited mode, as opposed to the "Full" Method), which deleted the "Master Boot Record" and "Windows Root Directories", on the Fixed Disk Drive ("Hard Drive") containing the Operating System.

B: The first Reboot, which brought up the "Repair" Splash Screen, was the "All OK!!!" indicator (Bootstrapping was successful, ready for OS install). The Reinstall Utility will ask for some User input (maybe...), and proceed to the "check, record and verify Machine Hardware Configurations" steps (records used to place relevant devices & drivers in the OS during install).

C: There should be another Reboot requested at this point, typically if there are any Drives which require Real Mode or Specific Drivers to be loaded into the MBR and in DRAM.
Otherwise, the Machine will Warm Boot (reset back to POST), and the installation begins.

D: The OS installed will be the Build Version available at the time of the Disk Image, located in a Cabinet File on a specific Partition (usually D: or Q:) of the Fixed Disk Drive.
After the OS has successfully been installed, and Hardware is behaving properly (which was the half hour time segment after selecting "Refresh"), you begin to see dialog boxes asking for user input.
After you entered the correct 25 Character Product Key for your (1) Seat License, you should be diving in to the "Tweaks, Printers, Networks and Locations" setup.
In order for the OS to perform its "Stability Tweak", there will need to be an adequate Internet Connection.

If there is no change in the Computer's "Mood" for over 2 Hours, verify if there is an Internet Connection, or lack of connection, by launching Internet Exploiter,... err, Internet Explorer...
If IE indicates a connection issue (text box with a message stating "Cannot Find Server at www.Microsoft.Com", or something similar), then you will need to Manually force the Machine Online.
If IE has connected to the web, you will be able to browse as usual. This means the "Stability Tweaks" portion of final Installation should be downloading a whole gang-load of files! If not, you will need to Manually Initiate the process.

E: After the relevant Files have been Downloaded, the OS will begin extracting these cabinet Files, and another Installation process begins.
Please note: the overall time for the following installation procedure's completion may range from 1 to 4 Hours!

F: For this Install Process, the Operating System will placing its self at the most current "Build Version", "Service Package" and "Key Issue Fixes".
For example, the Toshiba Re-installation Utility's Disk Image Cabinet File holds Windows Version 8.0211.001 - which has a Build Date of 2013-02-01.
As of today, the most stable and Secure Build is 8.0450.152, which has a Build Date of 2013-11-15.

After this final segment of the Update Install process has completed (and you successfully Reboot to Windows, AND can also use your machine...), you now have Version 8.0450.1521 - because the OS is current to the most stable Build, and your Hardware Drivers are more relevant to your Machine now then the ones contained in the Restore Cabinet File.

The newly acquired "1" at the end of the Build Version would be an indication that a major portion of the "Stabilize and Tweaks" work was specific to your Machine; such as a Board Level driver list has been "Rebuilt" for compatibility, and the Machine has almost a completely new collection of Drivers installed.
(Note: The added "1" may or may not appear, so please do not feel there is an issue if you do not see it!).

Congratulations!!!!
At this point, the Machine is ready for use.
There may be some minor Tweaks left for you to do, but it is stable and ready for Business.



Before diving in to "Application Setup", verify that the option to upgrade to Windows 8.1 may be performed, by Manually initiating the Upgrade.
If the OS does not complain (no error messages), and the MS Website has been connected to, you may perform the 8.1 upgrade.

Follow the 'Yellow Brick Road' through the Forest of "Agree to This, Agree to That" disclaimers; which if you pass through without the Wicked Witch grabbing you (fill in appropriate swear words as needed), you will be at the "known issues / Before You Proceed" and Installation "Readme" Files site/page.
Complete / Read what is needed, and if you want to create a specific location to Download the Update Cabinet file(s), create a new Directory ("Folder") on Drive C: before proceeding to the "Begin Download Process" section/button.

To create a new "Folder", open "My Computer", then open "Drive C:". Place the cursor in an open area of the Drive C: Window, then Right-Click Once.
A Drop-Down Box should fall out. Scan down to the lower part of it, until you see "New>".
Run the cursor over the "Arrow", so another Dialog Box opens.
Scan down the list until you find the "Folder" option.
Place the cursor on "Folder" and initiate this command by Left-Clicking on the "Folder" Command Bar.

A New Folder will appear, with flashing cursor placed inside the Highlighted text.
At this point, simply type in a specif name for the new directory, such as "WIN_8_1_UPGRADE" ((without the "Quotes, and no Dots (.) - these characters will likely put Windows into a Panic!)).
After the text is entered, simply press Return (Enter Key), then close the Drive C: Window.

Now return to the Update website to begin the Updating procedures.
Find your way to where ever the appropriate Update Forum is, then if everything is agreeable, perform the Version Update as needed.

The procedures will be similar to Build Upgrade, only you will be aware of more "optional" items -vs- "Suggested" or "Required" items that may be included with the selection and download.
If you are not comfortable in deciding what options to select / not select for download, just go with the items already selected by the MS Website tool.

Initiate the download process by clicking on the Begin Download button. There should be a Dialog Box asking if you wish to change the target directory; which you have the option to save the cabinet files in the Folder you had previously created on Drive C: (WIN_8_1_UPGRADE), or to save them to the default location indicated in the Drive Path List.
Which ever place you agree to save the download at is where you will need to go when / if you need to Manually initiate the Extraction and Installation process.
If the process is initiated by the MS Website, all that you need to do is wait for everything to finally complete, follow directions of any Dialog Boxes shown, and after some nail-biting moments where nothing seems to be happening, the most beautiful Dialog Box will appear, containing the most heavenly statement:

Upgrade Process Complete.
Windows V 8.1 has successfully been installed.
For This Upgrade to take affect, you must restart your Computer.
Restart:
YES
NO

Select "Yes", Cross Your Fingers, close your eyes, and recite this chant:
"Microsoft... Microsoft... Microsoft"
repeatedly during the Warm Reboot processes.
Verify you have successfully made it through the Bootstrap steps:

1st will be POST: Success will be indicated when the ROM BIOS hands the Machine over to the Real Mode persona of the OS; basically, when the "BIOS VERSION" text goes away, and the "Windows Splash Screen" is seen.

Take a deep breath, exhale, then begin the ore-mentioned chant at double-time tempo.

2nd will be WIN.INI related basics:
Success will be indicated by all of the following:
a: No "Black / Blue Screens Of Death",
b: Disk Activity is evident,
c: eventually (within 5 Minutes), you will be placed at the Login Screen.

Now you have passed 2 of the 3 crash points, and are on the way to the final Bootstrap point: Stability for everything of the Software Level.

This time, take Two deep breaths, kick up the meter of the Microsoft Chant to Speed-Metal Levels (>240), and hold on tight!!!!

Complete Bootstrapping success will be indicated by... well nothing!!!
If there are no protection fault dialog boxes, the Cursor moves when the Mouse is moved, the display has colors other than White Text on a Blue Background only - and, the most important, you are able to run an Application, and close it without hanging...

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!
you have successfully performed a mammoth procedure on your Computer!!!

All that is needed to do now is to re-register some Programs, final tweak whatever is needed, and pound a few Beers!!!

Good luck with this endeavor.
It may appear difficult, but mainly you will be sitting around waiting for something to tell you when it has finished doing something (typically will ask for user input), and if it needs to restart the Machine (if asked, say Yes).
Coffee is your friend here!!! You may find yourself dozing off over and over again, due to the continuous shuffle of File Extraction Verification and Update Success Verification text being displayed.

Let us know how things work out!!!

Good luck!

--Scott (EE)

Scott35:
First...it's "Hotline1" not 'Hotwire1', but that's OK!!

Most of the day, playing with the laptops. I got the 'basic' Win 8 updates installed firstoff, after finding the right place to look & act.

That was 50+ updates, and it took a bit. No fires, explosions, etc.

Then click on the 'Store' & wow....update to 8.1 for FREE.
Click, click, read, click, & wait.....

Blue screen, blending to yellow, green, purple, orange, etc. Then....black, and wow...it's updating things (for a while) But...painless.

Then, where did all the programs go? Darn it, had to re-install, and call a few for passcodes again.

OK, mostly everything I need is back in, some additional tweeks as time goes on. Bless the file backup HD.

As I get more comfortable, I see 'clouds' 'skydrive' & a bunch of stuff that will probably have to be deleted.

If that Toshiba update popup comes back, there's no way in hex that I will do that again.

Scott35, seriously...Thank You for the direction. You must have sore typing fingers after that!!

OK, getting better. Noticed that there are pop-ups now on ECN pages....

Window shade thing in upper right soliciting electrical contractors, and an annoying video ad with audio in the lower right.

Time to look for the source. Thought it was the MSN home page...

OK, got rid of the window shade drop down thing (I hope)
Seems to have come with the MSN pre-installed stuff on the laptop.

More cleaning to go

Still a learning experience!!

Bought a new laptop for my daughter/grandkids. Wow; it has Win 8.1 already installed.

Amazing a 12 year old can navigate through it with no issues!