OK, not related to Electrical Theory - directly , but will break up the normal stuff; and toss in something different to ponder.

Question:

If I say the following statement, just waddaheck am I referring to?

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Elephants And Dogs Got Big Ears

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Answer the riddle correctly and win a Prize!

Winner takes home sq. root of $25.00 (taken as a whole number - or square root of 2500 cents).

All funds are U.S.D. (Uranium Saturated Doll-hairs)

Any takers???

Scott35

I can not answer, though I thought it might have something to do with music (I would have to ask my wife).

I did think it rather interesting the offer of prize where using the sq root of the $25 gives us $5 versus the larger seeming 2500 pennies which would only give the winner 50 cents. Reminds me of those sliding pictures where one person disappears.

Standard guitar tuning - E A D G B E .

DING-DING-DING...DING-DING-DING!!!

And T-Kat wins the prize!!!
Just as sabrown said - it's 50¢... Thank you for playing!
Is a post dated check OK?

I have been getting back into the Music thing lately. Bought an Acoustic Guitar (yet I suck something awful playing it!), which is one of the reasons for the notation question.
A whole new set of calouses to make now! (finertips, as opposed to palms of hands and on fingers themselves!).

Still have nowhere to permanently setup the Drum Kit, and I have a major itch to play!
Time to rent a Studio by the hour.

Man, it' been like 17 years since I have tuned a Guitar - let alone touched one! (never really played 'em, only hot roding them and fixing them).

Can't believe I can still tune a Guitar! Matched low "E" and "A" darn close - just a little on the sharp side, and same goes for the remaining strings. (using my keyboard for note references after tuning was complete)

When we did Gigs, tuning was below natural, so Electronic Tuners were used.

T-Kat (or anyone else): Bonus prize question...
What's the frequencies of these 6 notes (E, A, D, G, B, E), and which Octave does the low E fall in?

I am just throwing these things out for fun, and to get some discussions going.
Even though it is Music (Audible stuff), there are lots of similarities to Electrical values and operations (theories).

A very easy one: Harmonics!
Another one: Can be plotted as waves!

Fire away, everyone!

Scott35

E = 82.41 Hz (ocave 2)
A = 110.00 Hz
D = 146.83 Hz
G = 196.00 Hz
B = 246.94 Hz
E = 329.63 Hz

I took my son's electronic tuner to work one day to find out that the 60 cycle hum of a transformer is in the key of C.

Scott,
I have an electric bass tuned B E A D G
Sure it's a 5-string and electure always rubs me up the wrong way about the cost of my strings.
I also have a 4-string fretted bass and a 4 string fretless.
Personally Scott, I've never picked up a 6 string guitar before, but I would like to for the fact of being able to play the chords.
Playing Bass only requires that you be in tune and in time with the guitarist and the drummer.
The only reason I use a 5-string in the first place is because of our local "Talent Quest",
uses a keyboard that needs a Bass background.

Other side of the coin Scott,
A string on a guitar of any sort has real physical value.
Pressing a string to a fret on a guitar shortens the string, between the nut and the bridge.
Not to mention Harmonics towards the top of the neck.
A guitar is a walking physics lesson.

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 03-18-2006).]

Music,
has a lot in common with Electrical theory.
It is a very physical thing.
Take for instance, a guitar string, it has a fundamental frequency (compare that to 60Hz)
A guitar also has harmonics along it's fret-board (any guitarist will tell you that).
Eddie Van Halen almost built a career on this fact (tapping).
I've used a bass before in one of my Ham Radio classes to explain Harmonics, as in 2x, 3x and 4x the fundamental.

"Almost"...might be an understatement.
He used to play with his BACK to the crowd/camera so as no one could see/steal his technique.

...but I do like it.

Good old "Edward's Hammer-On's"

When done right (and in moderation), it sounds great. Same could be said about Arpeggios.

I like the Guitar Solo "Eruption", - Van Halen's 1st Album. Extreme Hammer-On (Tapping) and Whammy Bar (Tremolo Bar) action going on.


This must be why so many people in the Electrical Industry are also musicians .

That's a great idea for demonstrating Harmonics, Mike!

Scott35

This must be why so many people in the Electrical Industry are also musicians .

That's a great idea for demonstrating Harmonics, Mike!

Scott35

I'm a skydiver. Can I use that to explain drop outs? Thinkin' back to the first one, I almost had to wash the brown out.
Joe

Joe, why don't blind people skydive?

Because it scares the heck out of the dog.

How does a blind skydiver know when to flare?
The leash goes limp.

Now for the truth. I actually have loaned my rig to a blind skydiver friend many years ago. He had over sixty jumps the last I had heard. I remember how nervous and excited I was about a night 4-way RW dive. Dan wasn't impressed. I also remember him telling of a painful jump he did in SW Pa. where his radio failed and he never flared and landed in full glide. Crash & burn. He said he heard crickets just before he hit. His lesson learned: If you hear crickets, FLARE!!!
Joe

Next time have people email the answer.
I knew that one right away

How do you make a cat go "woof!"?

Pour gas on it and throw a match.

We are in grave danger of PO'ing some activists here.

Trumpy - on a 5 string bass as opposed to a 4, does it generally have 1 higher or 1 lower string? If lower, does a bass really need a lower string, and could a higher string be used? Always been curious about that.

Radar

And to follow the last question: How about the tuning on a six string bass?

Gidday Radar,
Generally a 5-string bass will have a "top" (when viewed while wearing the bass) string tuned to B, however, some 5-string basses used in jazz areas have a "bottom" string tuned to C, as an addition to the normal set of 4 strings.
The reasoning behind the whole 5-string bass came about in the 60's-70's, where the music written in pop circles could not be accommodated with a normal 4-string.
This was a product of the disco era and has carried on since then, with a lot of bassists using a 5-string to give thier sound more "low -end".
A 6-string bass has the tuning B E A D G C.
Here is a list of the actual open string frequencies:

• B: 30.87Hz
• E: 41.20Hz
• A: 55.00Hz
• D: 73.40Hz
• G: 97.90Hz
• C: 130.80Hz

Mildly interesting fact about the electric bass, when it was first introduced, some record producers refused to use it, in favour of the upright bass, stating that it would damage thier recording equipment.

Got a question, regarding the tuning of a 12 String Guitar (standard tuning that is... not "tuned down"):

Since each set of strings (per note/chord) is set 1 octave apart, does one set the tuning on the largest string first, then tune the smaller string by matching the Harmonic of the larger string - or another string?...

Or...

Is this something best done with a Piano (or Keyboard) to match tuning per Octave?...

Or...

Use a Tuner?

I have never tuned a 12 string, and - in fact, have only held One (1) 12 string Acoustic Guitar for about 15 seconds (moving it out of the way, to avoid damaging it during equipment setup!).

Love the similarities of an Audio Waveform and an EMF (Electro Magnetic Field) Waveform.

Audio ones have Even Numbered Harmonics being Zero-Sequencing, whereas EMF ones have Odd Numbered Harmonics being Zero-Sequencing.

Regarding Radio: In AM Broadcasting of Non-Commercial usage - such as "HAM Radio", does anyone recognize "SSB", and is it used in other areas other than medium frequency broadcasts (500kHz - 1600kHz)?

RF work is really interesting to me!
I like it because of the ways to place information on carrier waves, the types of information to place on carriers, how to modulate that wave, how to receive the entire package and extract that information, and how the package looks so much like an Acoustical (Psycho acoustical) package - or could be compared to certain ones.

Scott35

Scott,
I have no idea about the tuning of a 12-string guitar, never having played guitar myself before I took up Bass.
What I would like to say is, the fact of "SSB or Single Side Band".
To have a radio signal in most cases, you require 3 things, a carrier and 2 side-bands, the side-bands being each side of the carrier.
The distance between them on the Electromagnetic Spectrum, is known as thier Bandwidth.
With AM (amplitude-modulated) signals, you have a situation where the side-bands are modulated in sympathy with the audio signal and they vary in amplitude according to the voice or input frequency.
FM or Frequency Modulation, works on a more linear situation, where the side-bands are pre-determined.
They are constant, the voice frequency is an effect of time not amplitude of the signal.
Now, to add the Single Side Band idea.
Both of these systems can be called Double Sideband, because they both have 2 sidebands.
What Single Side Band does is chop off the Carrier and the other Side Band.
You have a choice of lower or upper sideband, but the less bandwidth you have, the more power you can put into that signal.
This is also more efficient.
Incidentally to recieve SSB you need either a reciever with a BFO (Beat Frequency Oscillator) inbuilt, or you can inductively couple one to a Shortwave reciever.
Hope this helps Scott!.

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 04-27-2006).]

Most of my experience is with A5C vestigial sideband transmission in TV. The visual carrier is only 1.25 MHz (+,-10KHz with licensed offset) above the bottom of the channel assignment. You have your carrier, upper sidebands and part of the lower sidebands. There is your chroma subcarrier added to you visual signal. The aural carrier is added by a separate power amplifier through a device called a notch diplexer.

The advantages of SSB and DSB are definately on the transmitting side. There is no information in the carrier so why waste the power to send it if you don't have to. The receiving side must be able to faithfully recover the carrier, to insert into a balanced demodulator, to recover the information.

In TV, we only send the max power during horizontal and vertical sync pulses. In UHF broadcasting, we use a technique called Mod Anode Pulsing to increase beam currents during sync. So our 110 KW visual output and 2 MW ERP (effective radiated power), was only a valid number during sync, and much higher than an average.

One form of DSB suppressed carrier that we all enjoy and rarely think about, is any FM stereo broadcast. In radio, a 19KHz stero pilot signal is sent to light the light, and get doubled to recover the 38KHz subcarrier, used to reconer the (L-R) stereo subchannel. In TV MTS, we use the 15.734 KHz horizontal frequency as the stereo pilot. In both TV and radio, sharp cutoff filters are used to roll off the audio below the pilot signal. Phase modulation of the stereo pilot by audio is not a good thing.

Joe

Scott,
To answer your question about the 12-string guitar.
The normal guitar is tuned in 5th's, ie from E string at the 5th fret to A string open is a fifth.
Having said that, above the G string, it reverts to 4ths for the B and E strings.
Where is Electure when you need him?.
An E string on a 12-string (the second string in the group) is an octave above the parent (lower) string.
An octave can be thought of as this, the first two notes of "Here Comes the Bride" are one octave apart.
They are eight notes apart, in the key of C.
I'm of the opinion, less strings, less confusion!.
Hope this helps mate.

More on the 12 string guitar...
Trumpy is right about the octaves, except for the high strings B and E, which are the same octave.
http://www.guitartips.addr.com/tip28.html

It's not too difficult to play it, since you play two strings at a time, versus one string on a regular guitar. It sounds sweet, like you have a chorus of notes. The best sounding 12 strings are acoustics and the jingle-jangle Rickenbackers.

It's actually surprising how many different tunings there are for guitars.
12 string tunings can be done a number of different ways.
Common are the 1st(E) and 2nd(B) (highest musically, but lowest on the guitar physically as it's played) strings matched with a string of the same diameter, tuned to the same note.

The 3rd(G)string can be matched as the 1st and 2nd string are, but alternately it can be paired with a string, usually about the same diameter as the 1st set, tuned an octave above the base note. (This then becomes the highest note played, and is the one that causes the "ringing bell" sound you'll hear on some 12 strings).

The 4th(D)and 5th(A), strings, which are wound, are paired with smaller unwound strings tuned an octave above the basic note.
The wound 6th(E) string will be paired with a wound string that's normally the same dia as the 4th string, but tuned up to an octave above the the 6th's basic note.

You don't do much string bending with a 12 string, so the strings used are usually heavier standard gauge and not lightweights. This also makes them louder, and increases the sustain of the note, as there's more mass vibrating around.
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All of these tight heavy strings put a heck of a strain on the neck of a guitar (and are murder on your fingers). Very often a 12 string will be transposed down from the key of E into another key, which takes some of the load off. The key of C is most commonly used.(In the old days of Leadbelly, they didn't have any reinforcement in the necks, and they would warp easily or even break if tuned to E).
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Once you decide to play a guitar with a slide (bottleneck), the tunings are so numerous it would take forever to explain them, so I'll just list a couple here.

Open E (E major) E - B - G#- E - B - E
Open(Dropped)D D - A - F#- D - A - D
E minor 7th D - B - G - E - B - E
Basically you just tweak the strings up or down to suit your fancy. With a 12 string this can be lotsa tweaking. Nobody says you have to follow the tradition of matching the paired strings to each other either.

10 string Pedal Steel guitar standard tunings are C6 (GECAGECAFC) and E9(F#D#G#EBG#F#EBD)___________________________________________

The heavy metal guys have a habit of tuning down their guitars a few of notes so that they can make that "my guitar is vomiting" low note sound, or using a 7 string guitar that has a string lower than the standard's 6th.

(I knew I'd goof up somewhere, hence edit)




[This message has been edited by electure (edited 07-01-2006).]

Thanks a million Scott (Electure),
for giving us that info.
That could only come from a true guitarist.
Cheers mate.

Wow, it's good to see so many people play the guitar here. :~)