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Posted By: gfretwell 110.3(B)? - 08/25/07 07:29 PM
I am sure this is a 110.3(B) violation but it does seem to be an elegant way to deal with "short neutrals" on a panel swap. The "euro" strip is U/L listed, just not on the SqD label.
I like it better than a dozen yellow wirenuts.
Maybe SqD should get some molded in grey plastic and sell them as a listed item for their panel.

Jim Pauley, you out there??? wink


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Posted By: iwire Re: 110.3(B)? - 08/25/07 07:41 PM
I don't see anything wrong at all with the barrier strip.

Splices are allowed in panels and nothing says the splices have to be made with wirenuts.

I am more concerned about the group of conductors coming in the 1.25"? connector.
Posted By: renosteinke Re: 110.3(B)? - 08/25/07 08:27 PM
Greg, this is where you have to read ONLY what UL says ... and not jump to conclusions. Oddly enough, this exact situation is used as an example in the UL books regarding the modification of listed equipment.

The use of this bar does not automatically 'void' the UL listing. As UL takes pains to state, UL has no way, without examination by them, to determine whether the modification voids the listing - or not. It may be perfectly OK; I suppose that all you can say is that a modification MAY effect the listing.

So ... all you have is "might be a violation," and not "there IS a violation." It's your call. Were it my call, I'd praise the guy.

As UL is also very careful to say, it is the responsibility of the AHJ to determine the acceptability of the modification.
Posted By: frenchelectrican Re: 110.3(B)? - 08/25/07 08:37 PM
Really i will agree with both guys what they were explaing about the stripblock but i know most stripblocks useally are listed by UL and also EC {european verison of UL } so it should not have any issue but this one of the few area i have to walk on fine line without restorting to volated the UL listing on the panelbox itself.

but really the AHJ have final call on this one if he approved that methold then it should be ok for your area but may not be ok in other AHJ area

I done this few time also and my AHJ did give me the blessing on this one but genrally i don't do this not too often with this type of methold of termating the netual wire like this in the resdentail loadcentre because what if someone want to add new circuit and they may mistaked as a netrual connector which it is not so i just sized it for the amount of connection like this.

Merci , Marc
Posted By: gfretwell Re: 110.3(B)? - 08/25/07 11:35 PM
Bob the wires coming in the big connector are two romexes (#6 & #8) in one clamp. It is not right but there were only 1/2" KOs on that side of the panel and one big concentric KO.
I didn't have a punch handy to make a hole for a 3/4" KO.
I cheated and I am so ashamed wink
Posted By: JoeTestingEngr Re: 110.3(B)? - 08/25/07 11:47 PM
Does that barrier block have an ampacity >= the largest conductor connected to it? That would be my biggest concern.
Joe
Posted By: iwire Re: 110.3(B)? - 08/26/07 12:49 AM
Originally Posted by gfretwell
Bob the wires coming in the big connector are two romexes (#6 & #8) in one clamp. ........I am so ashamed wink


I don't think I would crawl in a hole and kill myself grin but that is just the sort of thing an HI will write up when (if) you go to sell. And you know the barrier strip would come up on an HI report.

I keep those barrier strips in the truck, I think they are great. cool

Joe the amperage rating of any of the ones I get will exceed the ampacity of any conductor that fits. smile
Posted By: pauluk Re: 110.3(B)? - 08/26/07 01:01 PM
It looks a little odd to see one of our "choc blocks" in an American panel, but it's sure a neat way to solve the problem.
Posted By: NJwirenut Re: 110.3(B)? - 08/27/07 12:34 AM
If the barrier strip is being used to extend neutrals that were too short for the new panel, why does there appear to be old, yellowed wire on BOTH SIDES of the strip, and not just on the top side? Installer reusing trimmed off bits of the old cables?

Why no similar strip for the hot legs?
Posted By: gfretwell Re: 110.3(B)? - 08/27/07 03:30 AM
The hot legs were all long enough. The other panel had the neutral bus near the top. The "old" wire was just off a short roll that I saved from another job a while ago. It was all unused THHN.
Posted By: EV607797 Re: 110.3(B)? - 08/27/07 04:03 PM
Well, I'm not going to beat Greg up on this one at all, in fact I would have done the same thing. I even had to resort to a few "no-no's" in my own panel at home. Here's my situation:

200 Amp GE panel fit between two studs in a finished basement wall. House is total electric, so there are plenty of large cables entering it, all from the top, and all knockouts are well-used. Due to the studs, there's no way to enter from the sides (I don't like doing that anyway). The only way to bring any other cables into the panel is from the bottom. Being a finished basement, this isn't really much of an option either. Personally, I prefer that ALL cables enter from one end or the other, never both and never on the sides. That's just my preference. I also prefer to use butt splices instead of wire nuts to extend wires that are short.

The only knockout left in the top was a concentric one in the center that goes up to 2.5". I had two 6/3 romex cables to bring into the panel, one for a sub panel in my shed and another for a second range in the basement. I ended up putting a 2" Romex/SEU connector in and brought both 6/3's in through it. They fit perfectly, of course, but there's no doubt that some gun-slinging home inspector will eat me up on that one if I ever sell the house.

My take on this is that sometimes, you have no choice in doing it 100% correctly, but 90% correct is close enough. It's not like there's no connector at all; it doesn't mash the cables excessively and it holds them well. Am I going to home inspector jail?
Posted By: Ann Brush Re: 110.3(B)? - 08/27/07 08:06 PM
NJ - Great observation (and perfectly acceptable answer Greg)!
Cheers Ann
Posted By: ChicoC10 Re: 110.3(B)? - 08/27/07 09:12 PM
I see a yellow wire nut in the upper right hand corner but I can't tell where the black wire coming out of it goes.
I also see what looks like a blue wire nut being used to extend the feeders neutral.
Is that a 1/2" KO that didn't get sealed?
And finally was the camera that far out of level because I'm sure it wasn't the panel;)
I'm just ribbing and I agree with Ed and though I'd worry more about a 1/2 hole exposed to wood than multiple cables in a clamp the danger either one presents in this case is pretty low.
Vince
Posted By: harold endean Re: 110.3(B)? - 09/02/07 03:33 PM
Greg,

I don't think that I would have a problem with the "Euro strip" either. I think it is a nice and neat way of getting everything together. Plus it doesn't over fill the panel with a lot of wirenuts. Good Job!
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