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Posted By: Admin Fuse Box Violations - 02/12/06 10:46 PM
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Count up the violations/ hazards in this one. [Linked Image] From a home built in the mid fifties.

trublu832
[Linked Image]
Posted By: jfwayer Re: Fuse Box Violations - 02/13/06 01:39 AM
Assuming this is the service panel:
0) 110.12(C) broken strand in service cable grounded wire.
1) 230.70 No means to disconnect the two circuits (using wh, blk, grn cables) connected directly to service cable.
2) 230.82 Assume the two wh, blk, grn cables do not fall under this allowable connection before service disconnect.
3) 110.14(A) Assume the terminals the two wh, blk, grn cables connect to are not identified for more than one conductor.
4) 200.7(C)(1) requires the white wires connected to the red service wire to be reidentified with a color other than white, gray, or green.
5) 110.14(A) assume the lower right screw on the neutral bar is not identified for more than 1 conductor.
6) 312.5(A) grounding wire enters a hole that is not adequately closed
7) 312.5(C) the two wh, blk, grn cables are not secured to the cabinet
8) 240.51(B) there is evidence of overfusing, one or more 14 AWG or 12 AWG wires appear to be "protected" by a 30A fuse.
9) 240.54 requires type S fuses under these circumstances.
10) 250.24(B) it is unclear whether or not the neutral bar is bounded to the cabinet
Posted By: electure Re: Fuse Box Violations - 02/13/06 02:33 AM
It seems to me like applying a Code that's 50 years newer than the installation is not that much different than applying a Code that's 50 years older than the installation.

Does it meet 1905 Code?
Posted By: jfwayer Re: Fuse Box Violations - 02/13/06 03:07 AM
It seems to me that the plastic sheathed cable is not 50 years old and the source of most of the violations. (Old romex would have reduced ground wire sizes.)
Posted By: mxslick Re: Fuse Box Violations - 02/13/06 04:04 AM
Did you all notice that the wires entering on the left appear to be SO CABLE!!

Not to mention that the white is lugged to the main AHEAD of the pullout fuses!!

Plus evidence of overheating on the lower-right hand pull out block's load connection.

Did anyone pull the meter out on this mess?!
Posted By: pauluk Re: Fuse Box Violations - 02/13/06 12:20 PM
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Did you all notice that the wires entering on the left appear to be SO CABLE!!

And they appear to enter the lower left corner of the panel without any sort of bushing or other protection.

I often find systems here in which the original 1950s/60s insttallation was just fine, but the extensions and modifications to it in more recent times are the problem.

It looks to me as though this might be a similar sort of situation.
Posted By: John Crighton Re: Fuse Box Violations - 02/13/06 06:28 PM
There don't appear to be any EGCs at all. Was that typical for the Romex of the period, or were they cut off and thrown away?

How on Earth did some hack install those SOs on the main lugs without getting lit up???
Posted By: mamills Re: Fuse Box Violations - 02/13/06 07:30 PM
It's amazing what those hacks can get away with...for a while. Just slip on a pair of ordinary gloves, grab a screwdriver with a real plastic grip, and take on the world [Linked Image]. The insulation on those main conductors doesn't look too great. Might be some heating going on there also.

Trublu832: Can you tell us where those two SO's go?

Mike (mamills)
Posted By: RODALCO Re: Fuse Box Violations - 02/13/06 08:44 PM
The black and white wire looped into the left top switch / fuse carries has no fuse protection on it by the looks of it.

Also at the right no bushing used for the bare earth wire,

on the earth / neutral bar the wires are not terminated in an eye shaped way under the screws, but straight.

Typically you see these types of cables in older NZ installations from the 50's too.

Some cables are in very good condtions while other cables have very brittle insulation.
Posted By: techie Re: Fuse Box Violations - 02/13/06 09:16 PM
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Did you all notice that the wires entering on the left appear to be SO CABLE!!


They look like solid conductors to me, which
means that it's not SO cable.

Look at how the wire holds its shape, and at the terminations on both the fuse block and the neutral bus.
Posted By: trublu832 Re: Fuse Box Violations - 02/13/06 09:39 PM
The two cables in the lower left corner are 12/2 romex, but an older type. They are tapped off of the main and paralleled for the 30A AC Unit which at least has a disconnect to protect it [Linked Image] The other cables are a cloth covered romex and has no ground wire.
Posted By: madmike440 Re: Fuse Box Violations - 02/13/06 10:40 PM
looks like a nice sized gap in the drywall around the panel
Posted By: Steve Miller Re: Fuse Box Violations - 02/15/06 07:59 PM
Those "dust flowers" growing on the terminals really add a nice touch.
Posted By: Gene134 Re: Fuse Box Violations - 02/16/06 02:56 AM
At least the pullout on the top right seems to be off.
Posted By: yaktx Re: Fuse Box Violations - 02/16/06 05:47 AM
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It seems to me like applying a Code that's 50 years newer than the installation is not that much different than applying a Code that's 50 years older than the installation.
Does it meet 1905 Code?

Actually, in one important respect, this installation does not meet 1905 Code, because the neutrals aren't fused. [Linked Image]

I don't have a 1905 Codebook, although I do have a fairly detailed textbook from 1908 that gives a good idea of the NEC at that time. (I do have a 1923 NEC.)

I think it's fairly safe to assume that terminating branch circuit conductors on the line side of the service disconnecting means (and of any overcurrent protection whatsoever) has always been a violation. The same seems to be true of flexible cords used in place of a fixed wiring method.

If you want to go back before the 1897 NEC (the first edition ever), Edison installed fuse wire on each conductor of ceiling rosettes to protect the pendant cord. I don't know when this requirement was dropped, but by 1908 it was actually forbidden, as melting fuse wire was known to have started a few fires.

That and fused neutrals! They sure were serious about overcurrent protection in those days!
Posted By: pauluk Re: Fuse Box Violations - 02/17/06 03:44 PM
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Edison installed fuse wire on each conductor of ceiling rosettes to protect the pendant cord.

Sounds like one of the ideas which belongs in the category titled "It seemed like a good idea at the time, but...."
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